All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[Tazirai]

So did Bernie and he failed miserably. As for coining a term...eh. Its all about media focus. Someone probably used the phrase before but it only got picked up because of the media. Not to say it isnt a shitty phrase and a thing to say in general that is.

When did he call black people Super predators?

[aja_christopher]

Why is this Party Tribalism so important to you guys?
Who gives a shit what a person labels themselves as long as they vote for actual Progress and to help the people?
I used ot be a Democrat, then became an Independent, because I saw and continue to see how Tribal the party is becoming.

Again -- you're not paying attention: the only thing I'm saying is that it's time to stop the useless infighting because it isn't doing anyone any favors.

I never suggested you join any "tribe" nor that you even become a "Democrat" and if you've been paying attention you'll notice that I never called myself a one either because I'm an independent as well -- an independent who doesn't have time to shoot myself in the own foot constantly criticizing the one party that is standing between people like Trump and Pence and Bush and Cheney when they do their damndest to drive our nation's good name into the ground.

The fact that I've been saying this from the start and it apparently still isn't clear to you (or other Sanders supporters) just further confirms that you're way too busy trying to sell your candidate to others without even bothering to listen to other perspectives -- you keep trying to make a "fight' where there is none.

[Tazirai]

She doesn't have the charisma of JFK but she does have potential.

She doesn't? This era is not equal to the JFK era. Why compare her to him? Different time frame man.
How many Twitter or Instagram followers do you think JFK would have had?
It does make a difference in this day an age if you want to get your message DIRECTLY to the people, and she's doing that.

When JFK was POTUS you had three networks.
AOC beat an Establishment guy when the only people pushing her were online News Networks like Kyle Kulinski and the Young Turks.
When she won, EVERYBODY wanted to know who she was and where she came from. Nobody covered her.
But she won anyway.

She's not a JFK clone, She's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, AOC.

Agreed. AOC needs experience and lots of it before she even thinks about running for the highest office in the land. The same can be said about Beto O’Rourke who shows promise but also needs seasoning.

Agreed with this. I hope she stays as much of herself as she can. With people like RHo Khana, Ilhan Omer, and other progressives, she should be fine. Beto has a lot of issues already. Especially since he supports AIPAC and Oil Trade politics and is unwilling to support medicare for all. Beto needs more than Seasoning, he needs a new recipe lol.

I share this opinion.

Same.

[Tazirai]

Again -- you're not paying attention: the only thing I'm saying is that it's time to stop the useless infighting because it isn't doing the party any favors.

I never suggested you join any "tribe" nor that you even become a "Democrat" and if you've been paying attention you'll notice that I never called myself a one either because I'm an independent as well -- an independent who doesn't have time to shoot myself in the own foot constantly criticizing the one party that is standing between people like Trump and Pence and Bush and Cheney when they do their damndest to drive our nation's good name into the ground.

The fact that I've been saying this from the start and it apparently still isn't clear to you (or other Sanders supporters) just further confirms that you're way too busy trying to sell your candidate to others without even bothering to listen to other perspectives -- you keep trying to make a "fight' where there is none.

I Am listening, I'm just not getting a cohesive POLICY answer.

WHAT.IS.THE.POLICY.POSITION. of this person I should be voting for? I side with RHo Khana and AOC, and Bernie Sanders.
Which other person in this party has this position that is not any of the people I have named.

Do I want Trump Gone? ABUNDANTLY clear that I do.
Which Democrat is running on s progressive platform that I should be rooting for? Lets take Sanders out of the equation. Lets say the Democrats have found several candidates that aren't corporate something something.
WHO has the policy positions RIGHT NOW that I should be backing and not criticizing or digging too deep into their background and see if they did terrible shit?

WHICH potential, 23 months away from now Democrat should I be excited for, based PURELY on Policy Position and not personality?

[aja_christopher]

I Am listening, I'm just not getting a cohesive POLICY answer.

WHAT.IS.THE.POLICY.POSITION. of this person I should be voting for? I side with RHo Khana and AOC, and Bernie Sanders.
Which other person in this party has this position that is not any of the people I have named.

Do I want Trump Gone? ABUNDANTLY clear that I do.
Which Democrat is running on s progressive platform that I should be rooting for? Lets take Sanders out of the equation. Lets say the Democrats have found several candidates that aren't corporate something something.
WHO has the policy positions RIGHT NOW that I should be backing and not criticizing or digging too deep into their background and see if they did terrible shit?

WHICH potential, 23 months away from now Democrat should I be excited for, based PURELY on Policy Position and not personality?

That's for you to decide -- and it has nothing to do with what I was saying in the first place.

Namely that you don't have to drag other "Democratic" candidates (like Hillary) down to show support for the one you believe is the best choice.

[Mister Mets]

It wasn't really stolen. You could argue that the most nefarious things maybe influenced voters but even on that there isn't enough data to prove it. Misinformation campaigns on social media have happened before. There were bs articles on facebook back in 2014. And it's kinda hard to have sympathy when alot of the hacked shit from the DNC and Clinton campiaign was 1. caused by user error and 2. was just true information coming out.

Also there's the two facts that

1. The biggest swing against Hillary came as a result of the Comey memo, which was not illegal. Maybe a break in protocol. But nothing you can reasonably take and stay "stolen"
2. The states Hillary lost were in an area she polled badly in anyways and rarely went to.

There's FAR more evidence those two factors hurt her campaign far more than anything Russia did. It just kinda comes off like people want to make themselves feel better.

This was also an election in which politically damaging information about something the Republican nominee said a decade earlier (the "grab them by the pussy" video) was released with about a month to go, so there was some shady stuff that benefited Democrats.

There was also limited Democratic outreach to the center (three times as many people chose a protest vote with two Republican Governors on a ticket than Jill Stein) which created the impression that Democrats viewed Trump's nomination as an opportunity rather than a crisis.

Because of the closeness of the election, it is possible that ten different things were each enough to swing one percent of the vote in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

Hogwash, both the emails and Benghazi were faux scandals promulgated by the GOP. She was a fantastic Sec of State. The vast Right Wing Conspiracy rears it's ugly head again. She was anything but incompetent. She had around 65% approval rating during her tenure. Then when she said she ran for Pres., the nonsense hearings started and went on and on, discovering nothing.
Stop with the emails and Bengahzi were actual scandals. They were a political ploy.

Her 65% approval rating came from the fact that a secretary of state can avoid domestic controversies.

It's going to be different when she's pushing for an agenda around 45 percent of the country is going to vote against.

Nikki Haley has awesome approval ratings, but that will go down when she's on a national ticket.

And Bernie still lost to Hillary by a very large margin -- yet here you are promoting him at every available opportunity.

No one here is telling you to "bow your heads" -- just that cult-like fanaticism towards one candidate who isn't even a Democrat and already lost against Hillary herself isn't an effective way to convince other Democrats (or moderates or Republicans) that said candidate is the right choice going into the next election cycle.

It's certainly your right as an American voter, but it will most likely be just as effective as the last time he ran.

Bernie's 43 percent was respectable for a small-state Senator running against someone who was well-known, and represented a significant milestone (first female major-party presidential candidate.)

His numbers were also deflated by the California results, which came after it was clear he wasn't going to be the nominee.

She's also too young to run for President right now. In 2024, she will be old enough to qualify, but she would be the youngest President ever. Maybe sometime in the 2030s she'll run.

I can see a push for her to run for Governor in 2022, from the activist left and from right-wing troublemakers.

[aja_christopher]

Bernie's 43 percent was respectable for a small-state Senator running against someone who was well-known, and represented a significant milestone (first female major-party presidential candidate.)

Just like with Hillary, I have no real problem with Sanders and I'd likewise have no problem with him -- or most of the other Democratic nominees -- becoming President, especially over Trump.

Which is why I don't spend my time criticizing him -- or most of the other Democratic nominees -- on message board forums.

Whether other voters will feel the same in 2020 is another matter entirely.

[Tami]

I have absolutely no problem with Sanders and I'd likewise have no problem with him -- or most of the other Democratic nominees -- becoming President, especially over Trump.

Which is why I don't spend my time criticizing him -- or most of the other Democratic nominees -- on message board forums.

Whether other voters will feel the same in 2020 is another matter entirely.

It just gets frustrating when discussions devolve into attacks on Hillary Clinton. I think it would be more productive to discuss possible candidates.

Here are some possible contenders to talk about:

• Deval Patrick
• Eric Holder
• Gov. Andrew Cuomo
• Gov. Jay Inslee
• Gov. John Hickenlooper
• Gov. Steve Bullock
• Joe Biden
• John Kerry
• Julian Castro
• Martin O’malley
• Mayor Eric Garcetti
• Mayor Pete Buttigieg
• Michael Bloomberg
• Mitch Landrieu
• Rep. Beto O’rourke
• Rep. Eric Swalwell
• Rep. Joe Kennedy
• Rep. John Delaney
• Rep. Seth Moulton
• Rep. Tim Ryan
• Rep. Tulsi Gabbard
• Sen. Amy Klobuchar
• Sen. Bernie Sanders
• Sen. Chris Murphy
• Sen. Cory Booker
• Sen. Elizabeth Warren
• Sen. Jeff Merkley
• Sen. Kamala D. Harris
• Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand
• Sen. Mark Warner
• Sen. Sherrod Brown
• Sen. Tim Kaine
• Stacey Abrams
• Terry Mcauliffe

[Tami]

I'm sure my list will become longer before it starts to become shorter.

[aja_christopher]

It just gets frustrating when discussions devolve into attacks on Hillary Clinton. I think it would be more productive to discuss possible candidates.

Agreed -- but it's too soon for me personally to make any real decisions just yet.

After a few debates, I'll have a better idea of who I support -- in the meantime, I don't see any point in continually attacking the only party that stands in real opposition to the Republicans, especially given how well that went the back in the 2016 election.

[Mister Mets]

It is easy: show me where they say they want open borders.

I'll save you the trouble, they don't.

And making a negative inference over the fact that they don't have a number for how many people should be let into the country isn't proof at all, and isn't "basically saying".
I mean, Trump hasn't denied that he's Satan and that his policies are meant to fragment mankind so as to bring about the end times. He's very vague about that...so it's fair to infer that he is Satan, right?
Too fictional? Okay, how about Republicans want totally closed borders because they haven't thrown out a number of how many people they are willing to let in?

The DNC Vice-Chairman was at a march with an "I don't believe in borders" T-shirt, so there's some evidence. Presumably, you wouldn't be happy if a top-ranking RNC official had a "White Power" or "Women Belong In the Kitchen" T-shirt at a public event.

The Satan metaphor doesn't quite work, because there is an open borders argument on the left. When Bernie Sanders said he wasn't in favor of open borders, he was criticized for it. With your Satan metaphor, a comparison might be if a prominent Republican said that Trump isn't trying to bring about the end times, and he got pushback from right-wing organizations arguing that the end times will be awesome.

I guess you have to make the lie work somehow -- at least you explained your rationale, or lack thereof, but where you like to assume the worst about "the left" we don't have to assume anything about the Republican party at this point because they've already exceeded our worst expectations repeatedly.

Trump had the chance to take a deal agreed to by both Republicans and Democrats twice and he blew both of them -- this is all on the Republicans, who both elected him into office and continue to enable him as he wreaks complete havoc in the White House: nothing you say here can or will ever change that fact.

And you once again dodged the fact that the Republican party is headed by racist (Trump) and homophobic (Pence) leadership because you know said behavior is indefensible -- much like the corruption that engulfs your party, which you are also actively dodging as well.

Lie to yourself all you want to, Mets -- it won't change the truth about your party, or the fact that the corrupt, lying Trump is symbolic of your party as a whole.

The shortcomings of the Republican party don't really function as a defense of the Democratic party.

Female journalists, politicians received abusive, hostile tweets every 30 seconds, study says

This is terrible. What exactly is the solution?

Better moderation is tough since twitter is free, and this requires a lot of man-hours (and a moderator would need to distinguish between abuse and acceptable criticism/ sarcastic support.) As individuals we could push to shun abusive jerks, although many have the benefit of anonymity.

[aja_christopher]

The shortcomings of the Republican party don't really function as a defense of the Democratic party.

Except it isn't my intention to "defend" the Democratic party so much as it is to ensure that your lying, cheating, racist, homophobic, warmongering, gerrymandering, Civil Rights Act destroying, deficit-raising, stock-market tanking, Russian-supporting, health care denying, immigrant abusing, recession-prone Republican representatives don't get elected into office.

It's not about "Democrats" to me -- if a moderate dog ran against the Republican party, I'd vote for him over the Republicans if only because I know he'd do less damage to the nation while in office... and I don't believe that's an exaggeration given the presidencies of both Bush and Trump.

Not sure why you don't get that yet, but I don't really care either.

[InformationGeek]

On this merry day, terrible news has struck. Another poor kid has died within ICE custody. Please keep his family in your hearts today.

An 8-year-old Guatemalan boy died Christmas morning in the custody of US Customs and Border Protection, the agency said.

He is the second Guatemalan child to die in CBP custody this month.

The boy, who was detained with his father, died shortly after midnight at Gerald Champion Regional Medical Center in Alamogordo, New Mexico, about 90 miles north of the border crossing in El Paso, Texas.

He was taken to the hospital Monday after a border agent noticed signs of illness, and the medical staff first diagnosed him with a common cold and later detected a fever.
"The child was held for an additional 90 minutes for observation and then released from the hospital mid-afternoon on December 24 with prescriptions for amoxicillin and Ibuprofen," CBP said in a news release.

Amoxicillin is a commonly prescribed antibiotic.

On Monday evening, the boy began vomiting and was taken back to the hospital for evaluation. He died hours later, the CBP said.
The official cause of death is unknown. CBP is conducting a review and will release more details as they become available, it said.

[Gray Lensman]

She doesn't? This era is not equal to the JFK era. Why compare her to him? Different time frame man.
How many Twitter or Instagram followers do you think JFK would have had?
It does make a difference in this day an age if you want to get your message DIRECTLY to the people, and she's doing that.

When JFK was POTUS you had three networks.
AOC beat an Establishment guy when the only people pushing her were online News Networks like Kyle Kulinski and the Young Turks.
When she won, EVERYBODY wanted to know who she was and where she came from. Nobody covered her.
But she won anyway.

She's not a JFK clone, She's Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, AOC.




Agreed with this. I hope she stays as much of herself as she can. With people like RHo Khana, Ilhan Omer, and other progressives, she should be fine. Beto has a lot of issues already. Especially since he supports AIPAC and Oil Trade politics and is unwilling to support medicare for all. Beto needs more than Seasoning, he needs a new recipe lol.




Same.

Beto is likely to support oil politics simply because he is from a major oil producing state. I'd expect the same from any politician who comes from Texas, Oklahoma, or Pennsylvania (trivia but, Penn is the biggest oil producer in the country, or at least it was before the fracking boom went full tilt).

At the end of the day, I expect most politicians will line up in favor of the biggest industry in their respective states, especially when running for an office that represents said state. Finding a Texas Senate hopeful who doesn't support oil is like finding a NY Senate hopeful who doesn't support banks.

[Mister Mets]

It just gets frustrating when discussions devolve into attacks on Hillary Clinton. I think it would be more productive to discuss possible candidates.

Here are some possible contenders to talk about:

• Deval Patrick- He announced he's not running. That's probably for the best, given that he couldn't get a majority of the vote running for reelection in Massachusetts.
• Eric Holder- I'm not sure he wants to defend his civil liberties record. He has no experience in elected office.
• Gov. Andrew Cuomo- He seems to piss off both the left and the right. Very experienced (big-state Governor who served as HUD Secretary) although I think he's said he's not running.
• Gov. Jay Inslee
• Gov. John Hickenlooper- Seems like an okay but not exceptional Governor. His much younger wife might be an issue.
• Gov. Steve Bullock- Very obscure, but could basically run without any Washington baggage. It's going to be hard for a small state Governor to stand out in a very crowded primary.
• Joe Biden- Very experienced. Reputation for decency. Older than anyone who has ever been considered a credible presidential candidate, but he may be the right man for the time.
• John Kerry- Actually did pretty well in 2004. But he's overshadowed by the rest.
• Julian Castro- Bit of a lightweight. Overshadowed by another Texan.
• Martin O’malley- Democrats who didn't like Hillary went with the 70-something socialist.
• Mayor Eric Garcetti
• Mayor Pete Buttigieg- Not experienced enough.
• Michael Bloomberg- A former Republican will be a hard sell for Democrats.
• Mitch Landrieu- May have a tough time standing out. I've been very impressed with his interviews.
• Rep. Beto O’rourke- Did very well as a candidate for Senate. Currently topping the Democratic Senators in the presidential polls. He's a blank slate, but that can be an asset.
• Rep. Eric Swalwell- He's a Congressman best known for gaffes.
• Rep. Joe Kennedy- He'll have trouble standing out. The Kennedys have also rightfully taken a hit in terms of personal reputations.
• Rep. John Delaney
• Rep. Seth Moulton- Impressive war hero credentials.
• Rep. Tim Ryan
• Rep. Tulsi Gabbard- Way too friendly with dictators at a time when the party sees them as too closely affiliated with Trump.
• Sen. Amy Klobuchar- Did as well running for reelection as Elizabeth Warren did in Massachusetts. Would represent the milestone of first female President with limited baggage. One of the strongest potential candidates against Trump.
• Sen. Bernie Sanders- He has a base of support and has made some smart moves to surpass some of his shortcomings (IE- issuing more foreign policy proposals.) The left isn't going to like him much because he's an old white guy, while the center would see him as a radical.
• Sen. Chris Murphy- Hasn't really stood out in the Senate.
• Sen. Cory Booker- Hasn't really lived up to his potential as a Senator.
• Sen. Elizabeth Warren- Probably overrated as a political talent. Well-positioned to run for President as an expert on income inequality from the big state next to New Hampshire, but the ancestry flap shows issues with reading the audience.
• Sen. Jeff Merkley- How is he going to stand out even if Sanders opts not to run?
• Sen. Kamala D. Harris- Well-positioned to run for President, as she represents the major milestone of first female President in an identity politics party, could do well in the states where primary voters are majority-minority,
• Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand- Shameless appeals to the activist left (IE- "the future is intersectional" tweet) have probably hurt her rep.
• Sen. Mark Warner- Won reelection by two points in a state that is increasingly Democratic.
• Sen. Sherrod Brown- Can be a powerhouse in certain swing states. Will have trouble standing out.
• Sen. Tim Kaine- Doesn't seem to be running. Probably a smart move given how the last time he was on a presidential ticket went (this was probably not his fault, but it may be hard to persuade the voters._
• Stacey Abrams- As inexperienced as Trump is, you don't go from state legislator (even minority leader) to President.
• Terry Mcauliffe- An old white guy who exemplifies the excesses of old-fashioned politics.