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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    LOL! These same people hate illegal immigrants...non-white ones anyway...because supposedly they're ruining the country, yet are okay with a foreign power trying to ruin the country.
    That Trump is so dumb--

    "How dumb it he?"

    He's supposed to be Putin's cabana boy, but he keeps sending aid to Syria and Ukraine!

    What a Maroon!
    Last edited by ouroboros; 08-06-2018 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouroboros View Post
    They're both threats, and only a fool would think one is better than the other.
    Only a bed wetting nincompoop would consider Antifa as bad as nazis. And I am being kind here.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    I don't think they get that this is real. They are just trolling, and when Muller is finished with everything will try and pretend that they weren't so easily duped.
    Russia might actually not be a bad fit for them. It's pretty much an ethno-nationalist, white people are the vast majority, gays get beaten up at Pride marches on a regular basis and the church is very powerful politically.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouroboros View Post
    liberals, ultraliberals, and whatever most of the posters here call themselves.
    Studs.

    .................
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouroboros View Post
    Is this a belated shot at Trump, or a less-belated shot at the Charlottesville debate on this thread's ancestor last year?

    Whether or not any peaceful protesters got tarred with the fascist brush or not, the overall effect of the "anti-Confederacy-statue movement" has been to give the Alt-Right a cause to rally around for some years to come.

    Thanks a lot, O thought-control cops.
    "We need to keep the inhumane racists of the past in high regard to appease the racists of today" might be the worst take in an age of terrible takes. Congratulations.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    You might want to slow down there, what with practically quoting one of the lowest points of the Trump presidency.

    If you're not careful, people might get the idea you're actually a white nationalist, yourself. And then no one would want to have any sort of discourse with you.
    News flash: as much as lefties cherish the idea that Trump empowered the Alt Right, they'd been increasing their power base long before Trump's candidacy, with Spenser coining the very term in 2010. Don't kid yourself with the fantasy that. had Hilary made it into office, Spenser's people and his ilk would have faded into the night. There's no way they would've failed to jump on the golden opportunity created by the Confederate Statue Controversy. In fact, I wondered if the righteous dumdums were secretly in the pay of Spenser, to create so much needless divisiveness ("think our way, or else"). Nor would Hilary have intervened to prevent the rally, which was, no matter how much you hate it, a legally approved proceeding. The only thing that would not have happened would be that Trump himself would not have made a presidential comment on the event.

    All other things being equal, Antifa would have played the same role in escalating the violence. Just because most of the media chose not to cover that role does not erase their partial culpability.

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    "We need to keep the inhumane racists of the past in high regard to appease the racists of today" might be the worst take in an age of terrible takes. Congratulations.
    "We need to pick stupid, ill-considered fights so that our enemies can take advantage of how stupid we were."

    Wow, just like THREE BILLBOARDS!

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouroboros View Post
    All other things being equal, Antifa would have played the same role in escalating the violence. Just because most of the media chose not to cover that role does not erase their partial culpability.
    So if the media is not covering Antifa's role in escalating the violence, how are you aware they did so? Youtube news channels? Or are you just saying their presence their, protesting, escalated the violence?

    I think it's weird you believe that the people holding the rally did so with no violent intentions, but you know...

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Somewhat reassuringly, selling people on the idea that being anti-fascist is a bad thing proves out to be difficult when you're not talking to complete idiots.

    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    In actual news, tomorrow will see a special election in Ohio's 12th congressional district. A deep red district, it has been in Republican hands with the exception of 2 years in the early 80s since 1939. The average Republican in local and state elections has carried the district by a little over 20 percentage points since 2012.

    Last poll out before the election has the Democratic candidate, Danny O'Connor up 1 point. It's gonna be very, very close apparently.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

    Hillary was right!

  11. #86
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    Manafort Trial Update PM #1:

    Cross-examination of Cindy Laporta, Manafort's accountant, begins.

    Defense establishes why Laporta, who described herself as specializing in audits, was in charge of Manafort’s tax returns.

    Defense asked and established whether it was hard to get Manfort’s financial information, and whether the team often ran up against deadlines. She affirmed.

    She also affirmed that they often went to Gates for that type of info.

    “There came a point in time when you didn’t believe what Mr. Gates was saying to you?” She affirmed.

    The defense highlights the complexity of Manafort’s finances while expanding Gates' role.

    The defense established that Manafort’s finances were so complicated that sorting through them each year was a chore even for his accountants.

    Gates was deeply involved in this process.

    Defense asked Laporta about various properties Manafort owned in New York, highlighting how each year their status seemed to change. Sometimes they were used as rentals, sometimes as personal homes and frequently each was being renovated. She affirmed the complexity of the account.

    Manafort corrected his lawyers for point to the wrong evidence.

    The defense contended that these constant changers were mistakes as opposed to what prosecutors view as lying.

    Laporta also conceded that she “relied on Rick Gates’s facts” as to how each property was used.

    Laporta testified she was often getting materials close to or when filings were due.

    Laporta testified that Manafort made more than $30M over a decade.

    A spreadsheet of Manafort's liabilities from 2005 to 2015 pulled from his tax filings were entered as evidence by the defense.

    Laporta said her firm would make these spreadsheets for clients to be better prepared for the next year.

    It included a $10M loan from Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska in 2010, as well as one marked only “Russian NGO” from the following year for ~$3.5M.

    “There are over $30 million in loans reported?” She affirmed.

    About ten million came from Yiakora Ventures, which Team Mueller described as one of Manafort’s shell companies.

    Defense pointed out that $15.7 million was set to be categorized as a distribution to Manafort which meant he would have paid taxes on it.

    Defense asked Laporta to look at Manafort’s 2016 tax return. Her firm did not prepare it, but his new accountants relied in part on information she gave them.

    Team Mueller objected on the grounds that it was not covered in the time frame seized.

    Judge allowed the 2016 taxes to be entered into the record.

    Laporta confirmed that the spreadsheet she prepared showed that Manafort had reported ~$30.2M in gross income to the federal government during the 10-year period and paid $8.38 million in federal income tax.

    In 2016, Manafort's return showed he reported as income a $1.9M loan from Telmar Investments, another Cypriot company that prosecutors say he used to avoid taxes.

    Manafort also paid a $30k penalty.

    Defense is arguing that Manafort ultimately did pay his taxes, and that any lapses were simply mistakes made in a small and complicated business.

    Defense asked Laporta if it was common in partnerships for a partner to pay for some expenses and call it loan to the firm, then forgive that loan. She affirmed.

    Defense tried to ask what was Gates embezzling from Manafort but Team Mueller objected on the grounds that the evidence was not entered into the record yet.

    Defense got to state that Gates is the next witness.

    -----

    GATES!!! Today!!! Get your popcorn folks!

    EDIT: Nevermind.

    Paula Liss was called next.

    Bench conference has ensued.

    Defense is livid and the judge cleared the juror pool.

    Gates might be sworn in today but the defense got admonished for attempting to influence the jury by calling witnesses out of order.
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 08-06-2018 at 01:03 PM.
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  12. #87
    I am invenitable Jack Dracula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Antifa draws from both America in 1920's and 30's, when militant leftists clashed with pro-Nazi groups in America, like Friends of New Germany, and the Antifaschistische Aktion formed in Weimar, Germany in 1932. Antifa has no central organization because it literally is NOT an organizarion, it is an ideal that became a label in 2017. There is also literally no central doctrine, either, other than "fight fascism." Anyone can be a part of antifa. Some are more prone to confrontation and throwing punches. These are who prople like Ouro think make up the entire 'membership' of the nasty thug gang he imagines is called antifa.

    However, many of those affiliated with antifa work protectively, and are more likely to draw fire from cops to protect other demonstrators. These are the guys who light fires in garbage cans, break windows of businesses, toss water bottles and dollar store smoke bombs. They cause minor property damage (covered by insurance), catcall, and otherwise force cops to focus on them, so that others with more to lose from police harrassment can get away from the event and go about their lives. There are others who operate as field medics, dressing wounds and providing relief from pepper spray, smoke bombs, flashbangs, and the like. I have seen them tend to not just black clad 'gang members', but to anyone wounded, even people they were facing off with moments before.

    But those guys in Berkeley, who turned out to hear pro-fascist propagandists speak their propaganda, man...they were just innocent people who did nothing but show up to support people who support fascism in America...innocents, I tell ya!
    I'm ok with all the rest of it - but not the property damage. Whether the store owners insured or not, It seems like a bad idea when the very thing people are trying to do is generate public support.
    The Cover Contest Weekly Winners ThreadSo much winning!!

    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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  13. #88
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Manafort PM Updates #2:

    Team Mueller gets to finish up with Laporta.

    Manafort did not file 2016 tax returns declaring a ~$1.9M loan from Telmar Investments as income and paying a penalty until Oct. 16, 2017.

    After he knew he was under investigation.

    And just 2 weeks before he was indicted.

    According to the defense documents.

    Laporta confirmed this via questioning.

    Defense objected on grounds of leading the witness. Judge overruled.

    Team Mueller asked whether, even if a loan disguising income is eventually forgiven and paid off, calling it a loan is still false. She affirmed that it is false.

    Team Mueller totaled up the taxes paid by Manafort between 2005 and 2015 that she recorded on a spreadsheet as ~$31M.

    “Is that less than $60 million?” She affirmed.

    Team Mueller said Manafort made over $60M in Ukraine during that time period.

    Team Mueller also asked if Laporta had any evidence that the large “purported loans” from Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch, were ever repaid or reclassified as income. Laporta said she had no record of that.

    Team Mueller also rebutted the defense's argument that errors in Manafort’s taxes could be chalked up to their complicated nature.

    Was Laporta confused about whether a condo Manafort owned in Lower Manhattan was a rental property or a second home. “Was I confused? No.”

    Team Mueller asked if it required a certain expertise to know that a loan forgiveness letter Gates sent her had been “backdated” to look like it was written eight months earlier. “No,” she said.

    Team Mueller asked if she needed expertise to know that you can’t disguise income as a loan. “No,” she said.

    “Is that complicated?” ... “No,” she said.

    “Did you need to be an expert to know that that was wrong?” ... “No,” she said.

    Paula Liss was called next.

    The Treasury agent said Manafort never filed foreign bank account reports.

    She testified that Manafort did not file any reports of foreign bank accounts between 2011 and 2014.

    Nor did his wife.

    Defense cross-examined the agent.

    Defense again emphasized how complicated these reporting requirements are.

    Defense asked about foreign corporations in which an American has less than a 50 percent stake.

    The agent agreed that those do not have to be reported but noted there is such a thing as “indirect ownership.”

    Defense asked whether exchange rates can make it difficult to determine whether a person’s foreign holdings exceed the $10k. She affirmed.

    Team Mueller redirected the follow-up.

    If in 2010 and 2011, Manafort’s consulting firm had a foreign bank account with more than $10k in it, controlled by a company that was 100 percent owned by Paul Manafort, would that require reporting? She affirmed.

    Rick Gates has been called to testify.

    -----

    Popcorn time now folks! The star witness is here.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  14. #89
    Mighty Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Studs.

    .................
    *waggles eyebrows*

  15. #90
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    Final PM Manafort Trial update:

    Gates took the stand.

    Team Mueller established their relationship.

    After a lot of establishment, they got to the heart of the case.

    “Did you commit crimes with Mr. Manafort?” Gates affirmed.

    Gates went on to acknowledge his plea agreement.

    A short bench conference ensued.

    Gates testified he and Manafort knowingly did not report foreign bank accounts.

    Gates said he conspired with Manafort to falsify Manafort’s tax returns.

    Gates said he and Manafort knowingly failed to report foreign bank accounts and had failed to register Manafort as a foreign agent.

    Team Mueller asked Gates whether he understood that his lies to Manafort’s accountants and omissions were illegal. He affirmed.

    When asked why he had lied, Gates said he had done so at Manafort’s request.

    Gates explained that Manfort had directed him to report money wired from his foreign bank accounts as loans, rather than as income, in order to reduce Manafort’s taxable income.

    By reporting it as a loan, Manafort could defer the amount of taxes he owed. "So we don't get caught."

    Gates admitted he stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from Manafort.

    Gates admits he also embezzled while committing crimes with Manafort.

    Gates said he had authority on some of Manafort’s Cyprus accounts, which were set up by a law firm in that country.

    “I added money to expense reports and created expense reports...”

    Gates said he had embezzled from other employers as well and that he volunteered this information in his meetings with the government.

    Gates said he also told prosecutors he had lied in a deposition in a civil case against Manafort involving a private equity fund.

    As a favor to a friend, Steven Brown, Gates wrote a letter claiming Brown had income that did not exist (Brown is facing fraud prosecution in New York federal court).

    As part of his plea deal, Gates said prosecutors agreed not to pursue charges on those fronts and to drop a second indictment against him in Alexandria accusing him of bank and tax fraud.

    Gates said he was guilty of those crimes, having wired money from Cyprus through the UK to the US without paying taxes on it for himself.

    Gates admitted he did lie to investigators while negotiating a plea deal, claiming a March 2013 meeting with a lobbyist and a congressman did not include a discussion of Ukraine.

    Gates also admitted wiring money from Cyprus for Manafort that was not declared as income falsifying financial documents when Manafort was “hoping to receive” bank loans.

    Asked if he got any personal benefit from Manafort’s falsified loan applications, Gates responded, “No, I did not.”

    Gates is facing 57 to 71 months to even 10 years.

    Judge got antsy about the pace of the case.

    New charges could be brought against him if Gates fails to abide by the deal’s conditions, including telling the truth.

    Off the top of his head he named 12 overseas companies he said Manafort controlled. Gates then identified 3 more .. a total of 15. One was not on Team Mueller's list, which caused an audible reaction from Manafort.

    Judge admonished Manafort for the outburst.

    Judge also admonished Team Mueller for pacing.

    “Yes,” they all belonged to Manafort he said. The money in them “came from income from political consulting in Ukraine,” he said.

    “Two directors from a legal firm” in Cyprus set up the majority of the accounts, he said, and he or Manafort would contact them about wiring money.

    Gates testified to a rather extensive list of wrongdoings with Manafort, 1 Team Mueller and the defense were not privy to, and even included violating a curfew by 15 minutes.

    Judge admonished Team Mueller for attempting to enter in the places Gates visited as evidence.

    Judge admonished Team Mueller for speed again.

    Gates on Manafort: “He’s probably one of the most politically brilliant strategists I’ve ever worked with.”

    Gates testified he moved money from offshore accounts.

    Gates was asked to review several emails between Manafort and Ukranian political officials and businessmen. They were entered into evidence.

    Gates said the operatives in Ukraine paid Manafort millions of dollars for political and policy work by wiring money from their companies in Cyprus to Manafort’s unreported foreign bank account in Cyprus.

    Gates testified Manafort would move money from Cyprus to his US accounts.

    When Gates said Manafort was moving money from Cyprus, he said he was talking not about “shell companies” but “shelf companies” meaning they were premade for someone to take over.

    Jury is dismissed but the judge kept the 2 teams in session.

    The judge then laid into Team Mueller.

    The judge saw unnecessary the questioning about the motivations of billionaires involved in politics in Ukraine.

    They argued about oligarchs again. The judge laughed. It's about whether he paid taxes and committed fraud. Not about the politics of Russia and Ukraine.

    Team Mueller disagreed.

    They said it proved the flow of money.

    “We’re just trying to prove these men in Ukraine are the payers.”

    The payments come from companies in Cyprus that are not in their names to companies in Cyprus not in Manafort’s names, and so they need to show these people “have the ability to make these payments” and the motivation.

    The judge disputed that he had limited prosecutors significantly or interrupted them often and said the record would support him on that.

    Team Mueller: “I will stand by the record as well."

    Judge: “All right, then you will lose.”

    ------
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

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