All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[Malvolio]

I like how two women of presumably Semitic descent - remember that people of Arab descent are also Semitic peoples, folks... - are being called anti-Semitic for having the audacity to criticize the outsized financial obligation our nation has to, the human rights violations of, and the relentless lobbying of our government officials by the government of Israel.

Complaining about how the Israeli government has several US Senators over a barrel in terms of lobbying money and purchased influence - and using the same language with which we criticize Russia for doing the SAME THING, while also using the same language to criticize Israeli lobbying that we use to criticize ANY lobbying - is not in any way anti-Semitic, and it's incredibly dangerous to stifle valid criticism by calling it 'racist'. Certainly, there will be racists who leap at the chance to 'stick it to the Jews', but those are opportunistic parasites, and should not invalidate the valid criticisms of those who are NOT ignorant hate-muppets.

At what point can a non-Jewish person criticize Israel's apartheid policies without being called anti-Semitic?

At what point are we allowed to point out the human rights violations going on at the hands of the Israeli military without being called racists?

Is ANYONE who is not Jewish allowed to speak up? Oh wait, even Jewish people have been called anti-Semitic for criticizing the Israeli government...

So I guess all we're allowed to do is remain silent while people suffer, while homes are demolished to make room for a golf course or a 'nice, Israeli-only neighborhood'. We just have to bite our tongues when women who aren't ultra-Orthodox enough get assaulted on public buses by rabbis. I guess that, since it was our decision, through the UN, to just...declare...Israel to be thing again, no matter who lived there at the time, that we now need to stand by that decision, and damn the consequences to anyone or anything else. I guess that, due to our collective guilt over the Holocaust and the years that the US government spent ignoring it at the behest of the rich and powerful like Ford and Bush and Trump and the rest, we have to remain silent. There was, after all, no profit in rescuing a bunch of foreign Jews who didn't recognize Jesus as Lord from that little civil spat going on in Germany, but there was PLENTY of profit in German industry and in all that gold the Germans mysteriously suddenly had in abundance...

We seem to have resigned ourselves to supporting the Israeli government in shameful silence, no matter how monstrous their policies, no matter how inhumane their actions, no matter how illicit their lobbying of our politicians.

Now, I guess I should resign myself to being called an anti-semite for this post, too...

As an American Jew, who has been called a "self-hating Jew" on at least one occasion for not supporting Israel 100%, I will say this: Denying Israel's right to exist is anti-Semitic. Criticizing the Israeli government is not anti-Semitic. And pointing out that American politicians who support Israel are likely getting money from pro-Israel groups is not only NOT anti-Semitic, it's like pointing out that a bear shits in the woods.

[sunofdarkchild]

American support for Israel can't be reflective of actual support for Israel among the American citizenry, even if 3 out of 3 Americans support Israel and 64% sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians. That's too ridiculous. No. It must be because of the evil Jewish money, because there is no other reason for Congress to support Israel.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/229199/...27s%2520Corner

Here's a hint. If your criticism of Israel includes conspiracy theories, the odds are it's anti-Semitic. But hatred of the Jewish state runs so high among some people that they cannot see any anti-Semitism in any criticism of the country much the same way some see anti-Semitism in all criticism.

[zinderel]

As an American Jew, who has been called a "self-hating Jew" on at least one occasion for not supporting Israel 100%, I will say this: Denying Israel's right to exist is anti-Semitic. Criticizing the Israeli government is not anti-Semitic. And pointing out that American politicians who support Israel are likely getting money from pro-Israel groups is not only NOT anti-Semitic, it's like pointing out that a bear shits in the woods.

Pretty much exactly. Anyone who says Israel has no right to exist is an ass. Flat out. But that's very different from pointing out the areas where the government has done some shady, even monstrous, things and defends itself from ALL criticism with claims of anti-semitism.

American support for Israel can't be reflective of actual support for Israel among the American citizenry, even if 3 out of 3 Americans support Israel and 64% sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians. That's too ridiculous. No. It must be because of the evil Jewish money, because there is no other reason for Congress to support Israel.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/229199/...27s%2520Corner

Here's a hint. If your criticism of Israel includes conspiracy theories, the odds are it's anti-Semitic. But hatred of the Jewish state runs so high among some people that they cannot see any anti-Semitism in any criticism of the country much the same way some see anti-Semitism in all criticism.

Absolutely, but...is it a conspiracy theory to point out that AIPAC - like any other lobbying group - DOES provide financial incentives to politicians to support their goals? To turn a blind eye to the suffering of people affected by the lobby's actions? To quash any news or criticisms that might negatively affect that lobby's interests? People should absolutely be free to criticize the state of Israel - in the form of it's governing body and military - without being accused of wanting Israel to go away. If they cross the line from 'I don't think that a foreign nation should be able to bribe our politicians to vote one way or another, even Israel' to 'I think Israel has no right to exist', then yeah...they're anti-Semites, and should be shut down. But if people raise VALID criticisms of a policy or action undertaken by the Israeli government or military, such criticism/discussion should not be shut down with accusations of racism being the reason for the criticism.

Not all - and I would say not even MOST - support for Israel is as a result of the state sanctioned bribery we call 'lobbying'. I have no doubt that most support comes from a genuine, good place. But when it comes to politicians accepting money from ANYONE, we should be free to discuss the motivations of the lobbyist and the politician being lobbied. Because let's be real...most politicians don't support anything, except what gives them money and power. And it's ESPECIALLY evident when the politicians most vocally calling Ilhan Omar's criticism 'anti-Semitism' are Kevin 'Rich Jews like Soros and Bloomberg are bringing communism!' McCarthy and Donald 'Everything I say is racist, sexist, ignorant and/or gibberish' Trump.

I mean...it's not a conspiracy when it's all done openly, like any other spate of bribes...I mean lobbying. It's not a conspiracy when someone points to the very real figures involved in money flowing from AIPAC into the pockets of certain politicians, who then turn around and use their power and influence to sway public opinion. That is literally what lobbying is, after all.

Despite that, there is no other instance I can think of where talking about the problematic effects of lobbying is treated as a racial injustice thing. No other discussion about the evils of lobbying and financial influence on politicians gets shut down as hard or as fast as ANY criticism of Israel's policies and military actions, which then shuts down any discussion and allows things to remain at a steady state of total clusterfuck stasis in which kids on both sides keep dying, nothing gets done, and everyone suffers...except the people in power.

As always.

[Gray Lensman]

Regarding the Virginia black face scandal, Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton once heaped praise for late Klansman Senator Robert Byrd who was her mentor. Ironically Clinton is one of the people calling for Governor Northam to step down.

When Byrd died, she mourned his death. In a video uploaded to the State Department’s official YouTube page on June 28, 2010, Clinton commemorated late Sen. Byrd by saying, “Today our country has lost a true American original, my friend and mentor Robert C. Byrd.

Hillary is more Southern than she is Northern, even though she grew up in Illinois and represented New York in the US Senate. Living more than 20 years in Arkansas (a Southern state) really has influenced her mindset.

Would this be the same Byrd who was receiving 100% ratings from the NAACP towards the end of his Senate career?

Your post comes across as a textbook example of a Lie of Omission.

[Tendrin]

Would this be the same Byrd who was receiving 100% ratings from the NAACP towards the end of his Senate career?

Your post comes across as a textbook example of a Lie of Omission.

Byrd is the word for people trying to smear Dems.

[sunofdarkchild]

Pretty much exactly. Anyone who says Israel has no right to exist is an ass. Flat out. But that's very different from pointing out the areas where the government has done some shady, even monstrous, things and defends itself from ALL criticism with claims of anti-semitism.



Absolutely, but...is it a conspiracy theory to point out that AIPAC - like any other lobbying group - DOES provide financial incentives to politicians to support their goals? To turn a blind eye to the suffering of people affected by the lobby's actions? To quash any news or criticisms that might negatively affect that lobby's interests? People should absolutely be free to criticize the state of Israel - in the form of it's governing body and military - without being accused of wanting Israel to go away. If they cross the line from 'I don't think that a foreign nation should be able to bribe our politicians to vote one way or another, even Israel' to 'I think Israel has no right to exist', then yeah...they're anti-Semites, and should be shut down. But if people raise VALID criticisms of a policy or action undertaken by the Israeli government or military, such criticism/discussion should not be shut down with accusations of racism being the reason for the criticism.

I mean...it's not a conspiracy when it's all done openly, like any other spate of bribes...I mean lobbying. It's not a conspiracy when someone points to the very real figures involved in money flowing from AIPAC into the pockets of certain politicians, who then turn around and use their power and influence to sway public opinion. That is literally what lobbying is, after all. In no other instance is talking about the problematic effects of lobbying treated as a racial injustice thing, which then shuts down any discussion and allows things to remain at a steady state of total stasis in which kids on both sides keep dying, nothing gets done, and everyone suffers...except the people in power.

As always.

That's not what Omar did, and even then AIPAC's lobbying budget it minuscule. $3.2 million is nothing in lobbying terms.

Her first tweet was saying "It's all about the Benjamins baby." 'All' is a pretty string indicator she believes McCarthy is being motivated by being being. Then when asked who is providing the 'Benjamins, she replies with one word, 'AIPAC!' This is an actual smear, since AIPAC does not provide much money at all and McCarthy has motivations other than money. AIPAC is not some boogeyman controlling US foreign policy. In terms of money it's one of the smaller lobbies and owes its high profile to the fact that what it lobbies for is already supported by the vast majority of Americans and people in Congress rather than the actions it itself has taken.

It is anti-Semitic to say that being pro-Israel is all motivated by the money. First of all it plays into classic anti-Semitic tropes, and second of all it assumes that money is the only reason anyone supports Israel, which is completely false. It is a conspiracy which assigns power to a group that does not have that kind of power.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Lawmakers Say They’ve Reached Tentative Agreement To Prevent Government Shutdown

Republicans were desperate to avoid another bruising shutdown. Of that, I have no doubt. Meanwhile....

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Trump Doubles Down On Border Security At Rally: ‘Walls Save Lives’

The president’s speech offered a stark contrast to a march a few miles away led by El Pasoan Beto O’Rourke, a possible Democratic challenger. I'd be more inclined to believe O'Rourke who lives there and knows the score while all Trump does is peddle fear and loathing of brown skinned people. By the way, speaking of El Paso....

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Trump Came To El Paso To Lie About It

El Paso was getting safer well before the city’s current border fence was constructed. But hey, to hear Trump tell it, the (brown skinned) barbarians are at the gates.

**********

West Virginia Lawmaker Faces Calls To Resign After Likening LGBTQ People To KKK, ‘Terrorist Group’

Delegate Eric Porterfield has continued to stand by his comments, most recently saying he’d “see if [his kids] can swim” if they came out as gay. Oh, WBEEEEEEEE....

**********

Katy Perry’s ‘Blackface’ Shoes Pulled From Dillard’s Amid Backlash

The shoes, which resemble blackface caricatures, are no longer available on the store’s website. When will idiots like this pop tart get the hint that anything even remotely resembling blackface is NOT COOL?

[JCAll]

Lawmakers Say They’ve Reached Tentative Agreement To Prevent Government Shutdown

Republicans were desperate to avoid another bruising shutdown. Of that, I have no doubt. Meanwhile....

He's still getting a billion dollars for his wall.
Taking hostages works.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

He's still getting a billion dollars for his wall.
Taking hostages works.

Sure, Dolt45 figures to get his money, but, more than likely, he WON'T get his wall built. Taking into account the inevitable lawsuits by residents who'll lose their land via eminent domain, some cases that might go all the way to SCOTUS and any other delays, Trump will be out of office before construction begins, and if a Democrat succeeds him, he (or she) will just cancel the whole damn thing. Look, I understand the rationale that giving a hostage taker what he wants makes for a seriously bad precedent because it only emboldens him to continue the practice, but, in the long run, this probably makes for the best of a bad situation.

[JCAll]

Sure, Dolt45 figures to get his money, but, more than likely, he WON'T get his wall built. Taking into account the inevitable lawsuits by residents who'll lose their land via eminent domain, some cases that might go all the way to SCOTUS and any other delays, Trump will be out of office before construction begins, and if a Democrat succeeds him, he (or she) will just cancel the whole damn thing. Look, I understand the rationale that giving a hostage taker what he wants makes for a seriously bad precedent because it only emboldens him to continue the practice, but, in the long run, this probably makes for the best of a bad situation.

I don't think he was ever actually going to get a wall, it's just a matter of how many people he's going to find a way to dick over along the way. That might be the only think he's good at.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I don't think he was ever actually going to get a wall, it's just a matter of how many people he's going to find a way to dick over along the way. That might be the only think he's good at.

Well, Trump has to continue feeding his gullible lemmings that b.s. about the wall or they'll drop him like a bad habit, and any shot he has of getting re-elected promptly goes down the toilet. I maintain Trump doesn't give a rat's ass about border security, probably never did, he had two years to obtain the money he needed for his precious wall when Republicans controlled everything, but didn't do jack squat, hell, the border only became a priority AFTER Democrats reclaimed the House three months ago. All he cares about is keeping that inane promise that helped put him in the Oval Office.

[sunofdarkchild]

do you know that Dianne Feinstein, Chuck Schumer, Barbara Boxer, Bernie Sanders, Adam Schiff, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Eric Cantor and some other members of Congress are Jews?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tates_Congress

in the 116th Congress, which commenced on January 3, 2019, there are 28 Jews in the House and nine Jews in the Senate.

The point being ... they got elected because of AIPAC? They support Israel because they're Jewish, even though not everyone listed there actually supports Israel? Are you trying to say that these particular Jewish Congresspeople didn't call out Omar, even though other Jewish Democrats in Congress did?

[Tami]

I see the issue with Congressperson Ilhan Omar, the reaction to it, more of a lesson in diplomacy.

There are a lot of people in Congress who hold strong views over one thing or another, over one group of people or another, but to survive long term in Congress and be effective without constantly generating controversy, you need to learn to be diplomatic.

There are ways of saying things, or expressing yourself, without stepping on the toes of others. Without creating enemies of those constituents you may need support from eventually.

Newly elected politicians need to know what to say, how to say it, and when to say it. They need to learn diplomacy, civility, and moderation. It's a survival skill, it's a necessary skill. It's like poker, you need to know how the game is played or you're going to lose every time, no matter how good a hand you have or how strongly you believe in something.

The same can be said for all newly elected members of Congress who have never before held public office.

[Kirby101]

Regarding the Virginia black face scandal, Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton once heaped praise for late Klansman Senator Robert Byrd who was her mentor. Ironically Clinton is one of the people calling for Governor Northam to step down.

When Byrd died, she mourned his death. In a video uploaded to the State Department’s official YouTube page on June 28, 2010, Clinton commemorated late Sen. Byrd by saying, “Today our country has lost a true American original, my friend and mentor Robert C. Byrd.

Hillary is more Southern than she is Northern, even though she grew up in Illinois and represented New York in the US Senate. Living more than 20 years in Arkansas (a Southern state) really has influenced her mindset.

You should read further about what Robert Byrd said about his Klan past before you call him a racist. And I find it interesting that you know what Hillary thinks based on her time in Arkansas. Are you a mind reader? Here is a clue, we actually know what she thinks because she was in public office and has written several books. And she doesn't have a "southern mindset" whatever that is.

[kidfresh512]

Supporter at Trump rally attacks BBC cameraman at rally in El Paso, Texas

It is hard to get shocked at the subhumans who go to these hate rallies. But, this guy just attacks the BBC cameraman and the crowd is seriously chanting "Let him go" when hes hauled off him from further attacks?

Thank goodness the guy didn't get stabbed or something. And Trump will claim he isn't responsible for ratcheting up this rabid base of nut jobs to literally target media. Media should just stop going to the hate rallies honestly. All he does is lie