All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[worstblogever]

Pence vs. Trump argument:

On Foreign Policy, Pence's competency would be far more stable. However, his Judeo-Christian fanaticism might me we end up at war at Iran for vague "reasons" that amount to allying with the Saudis and him wanting to go to a crusade with some Muslim nation. He's less likely to cock-up things in Europe or in the Pacific, at least. Therefore, at least an improvement.
On Human Rights... Pence would not be as overtly racist in his policies, particularly against immigrants and people of color. However, he would be hell bent on attacking the LGBTQ Community. It would be about trading one kind of focused bigotry for another. Executive orders would be where Pence would take his worst shots at same sex couples and transgender Americans.
On Women's Rights... One brags about sexual assault. One actually wants to overturn Roe v. Wade and take a shot at outlawing birth control, if he can go that far. Policy wise, the latter is worse, but Pence would not be able to achieve any of these dreams with a Democratic House. So it's really a push.

[Tendrin]

I agree that it's not about Pence. But I'm not sure the viiolence that would follow impeachment from his supporters is worth it. The election is next year, and if the information that comes out of all this was damaging and severe enough to bring up impeachment seriously, it should be damaging and severe enough to hopefully point towards a better outcome next year.

It's not as if Trump is gonna go gracefully if he loses.

[worstblogever]

It's not as if Trump is gonna go gracefully if he loses.

Fascists are not known to easily let go of power. Especially when they know if they don't cling to it, they're almost certainly going to prison.

[ZombieHavoc]

I agree with both above, but I mean...so?

If he is voted out, he has to go right? He can't just barricade himself in the WH and never leave, I assume?

If he was impeached, he would not go gracefully either.

[InformationGeek]

Oooooooh boy...

BREAKING: A GOP lobbyist just told me @realDonaldTrump is in “complete disarray” and that he was “blindsided” by Cohen’s opening statement. Trump feels “betrayed” & is “absolutely furious.” Says Trump even wanted to fly back to US, and also didn’t know Cohen could bring evidence.

[InformationGeek]

And we begin our committee with Elijah Cummings kicking things off... only for Mark Meadows to start raging and screaming to stop the meeting.

[InformationGeek]

And now Jim Jordan, in his very dweeby voice, is bitching and complaining to stop this as well. He demands holding off the committee, but is shut down by lots of ayes saying to go forward.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Pence vs. Trump argument:

On Foreign Policy, Pence's competency would be far more stable. However, his Judeo-Christian fanaticism might me we end up at war at Iran for vague "reasons" that amount to allying with the Saudis and him wanting to go to a crusade with some Muslim nation. He's less likely to cock-up things in Europe or in the Pacific, at least. Therefore, at least an improvement.
On Human Rights... Pence would not be as overtly racist in his policies, particularly against immigrants and people of color. However, he would be hell bent on attacking the LGBTQ Community. It would be about trading one kind of focused bigotry for another. Executive orders would be where Pence would take his worst shots at same sex couples and transgender Americans.
On Women's Rights... One brags about sexual assault. One actually wants to overturn Roe v. Wade and take a shot at outlawing birth control, if he can go that far. Policy wise, the latter is worse, but Pence would not be able to achieve any of these dreams with a Democratic House. So it's really a push.

I agree with your assessments. Internationally, I could see Pence doing what he can to repair relations with world leaders that had been badly damaged by Trump who openly kissed up to strongmen, dictators and psycho oil sheiks who ordered journalists chopped up with bone saws. However, that tack might not sit well with Vlad Putin who threw his weight behind Dolt45 because he wanted a puppet in the Oval Office instead of a hardened adversary like Hillary Clinton. Nationally, would Pence distance himself and the administration from the white nationalists Trump embraced, even if it meant losing support from the Republican base? Your guess is as good as mine. Oh, yeah, I suspect the talking heads and nutjobs on Faux News wouldn't be able to influence Pence like they had Trump. Meanwhile, Pence would indeed be a threat to Roe v. Wade and LGBTQ people, no doubt about that whatsoever, it would be up to Congress to keep him in check on those fronts.

[Dalak]

I'm still a bit perplexed about how anyone reasonably knowledgeable about current events and history would conclude that the likely explanation of a member of Senate leadership quoting Mussolini on twitter is that they agree with him, rather than they're critical of a powerful, central government. A Republican quoting “We were the first to assert that the more complicated the forms assumed by civilization, the more restricted the freedom of the individual must become” would be supporting a the small-government argument.

I kinda get an activist being primed to think that way when they first hear someone say this, although it suggests something's wrong with the left in terms of their imagination and understanding if so many come to such an outrageous conclusion.

The Patriot Act disagrees with you, as does the fact that Cornyn is for a strong central gov't as long as a Republican is in charge. If not why would he support all these policies and fiscal irresponsibility that he railed against for Obama's term? He IS the Gov't and he IS taking away freedoms. Those are facts. Your opinion isn't supported by them, nor is his "LOL u got trolld" response to the whole thing.

Regardless of what Cornyn's intended message was, it's hard to really see him or anyone else in the Republican party as some kind of freedom-loving patriot when they just fall in line behind Trump unconditionally. Oh sure, in Trump's America people won't be able to control their own bodies, have their votes counted, or even show their faces in public without fear of deportation, but sure, the side trying to raise taxes on billionaires, they're the real monsters here.

In other words, when you quote fascists while empowering a fascist, don't be surprised when people think you're approving.

These guys get it!

[InformationGeek]

Jim Jordan is now going fucking nuts, ranting about how all of this is setup by Lanny Davis & Tom Steyer and is a big conspiracy by the Clintons. He is declaring Cummings is ruining the committee and destroying this committee's credibility. Someone needs to up this guy's meds now.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Jim Jordan is now going fucking nuts, ranting about how all of this is setup by Lanny Davis & Tom Steyer and is a big conspiracy by the Clintons. He is declaring Cummings is ruining the committee and destroying this committee's credibility. Someone needs to up this guy's meds now.

Yeah this is pretty juicy

[WestPhillyPunisher]

And we begin our committee with Elijah Cummings kicking things off... only for Mark Meadows to start raging and screaming to stop the meeting.

And now Jim Jordan, in his very dweeby voice, is bitching and complaining to stop this as well. He demands holding off the committee, but is shut down by lots of ayes saying to go forward.

Jim Jordan is now going fucking nuts, ranting about how all of this is setup by Lanny Davis & Tom Steyer and is a big conspiracy by the Clintons. He is declaring Cummings is ruining the committee and destroying this committee's credibility. Someone needs to up this guy's meds now.

What we have here is....Republicans scared shitless of what Cohen has to say about Caramel Caligula, so they're trying to derail the hearing by any means necessary.

[ZombieHavoc]

I saw a meme thing about how republicans are claiming Cohen is distrustful because he lied to congress....about Trump having not done anything wrong.

[TheDarman]

So, in other words, you clearly see the Republican "rationale" behind denying "brown people" the right to vote -- you're not even denying it; in fact, you're claiming that it's "rational" behavior.

All you're doing is trying to "rationalize" the racist behavior of your party in claiming that it's "rational" to repeatedly attempt to suppress or deny the votes of American citizens based on their skin color.

You're openly making excuses for your party's racism -- claiming that they do things like stealing elections and profiling people of color it because it makes things "better".

On that basis alone it's easy to see why you're a Republican: apparently in your view, it's not "racist" to attack the rights of "brown people" -- it's just rational.

I guess the argument is that the Republicans really do have the best interests of the people they actively deny the right to vote to but they deprive them of that right because Republicans know what is better for them than do the voters.

That's kind of a funny argument from a party that has taken a decidely populist bent with President Trump. I thought that it was supposed to be about being anti-elitist.

As a Political Science major, my job is to try to track ideological traditions. What I find funny, here, is that, while President Trump has tried to emulate, and make moves about, being a Jeffersonian Republican (a populist and people-person--emulating Andrew Jackson, who was firmly within that ideological tradition himself), the Republican Party, as seen in this circumstance, still employs the Hamitonian rhetoric that often came in conflict with Jefforsonian ideology. It's such an odd juxtaposition that Trump, if he had any real ideological scrupples, would actually take offense at many of the justifications of his policy and would argue against a plethora of the Republican bills that have reached his desk. But Trump is merely presenting arguments, and himself, that mimic Jeffersonian ideology and not living by it. He would rather pretend to be an ally of the working class than actually do anything positive to enforce that view because Republicans will continue to pass the most elitist dribble across his desk and Trump will keep signing it because the party will continue to coax his ego. Trump is, at the very least, so insecure that he just doesn't want to let people who disagree with him vote so he tries to create myths of large-scale voter fraud. Republicans, though, are more straight-forward in what they want: power in the very real Hamiltonian sense--and depriving people of their power in order to ensure that they will "make things better for them".

As a Lincolnian myself, I gotta say that I am quite disappointed that this is the ruling party of all three branches.

[InformationGeek]

So far, Cohen is discussing everything that happened. Nothing to really report so far. Though, I'm bracing myself for the next rant by conspiracy filled Jim Jordan.