All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!(Part II)

[PaulBullion]

It's especially funny that Sanders got booed by his supporters for his lukewarm support of Clinton considering this video of him Supporting her way in 1993:

https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/sta...31833789390848

[aja_christopher]

It's especially funny that Sanders got booed by his supporters for his lukewarm support of Clinton considering this video of him Supporting her way in 1993:

https://twitter.com/tommyxtopher/sta...31833789390848

Because in 2016 it wasn't about beating the Republicans -- it was about beating Hillary.

As an independent and a relative moderate, I was repeatedly attacked online in 2016 just for pointing out the similarities between Sanders and Hillary's policies and even more so when I questioned his record on civil rights.

It wasn't about discussing facts relevant to the election -- it was about attacking Hillary and anyone who voiced support for her in the election.

Now they've moved on to Kamala and Beto -- and anyone else they see as a "threat" to their agenda.

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"Inside Bernie-world's war on Beto O'Rourke"

"Forces loyal to Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders are waging an increasingly public war against Texas Rep. Beto O'Rourke, the new darling of Democratic activists, as the two men weigh whether to seek the party's presidential nomination in 2020.

The main line of attack against O'Rourke is that he isn't progressive enough — that he's been too close to Republicans in Congress, too close to corporate donors and not willing enough to use his star power to help fellow Democrats — and it is being pushed almost exclusively by Sanders supporters online and in print...

The biggest difference may be that O'Rourke is now a threat to Sanders in the 2020 primary. Though neither man has announced whether he will run, O'Rourke captured the hearts and dollars of veteran Democratic activists, donors of all ages and millennial political newcomers across Texas and the nation in his Senate run.

"I think this week can be understood as a kind of turning point, where — for the first time really — millions of Americans are seeing pieces that look underneath the superficial gloss of projections onto Beto," said Norman Solomon, who was a delegate for Sanders at the 2016 Democratic National Convention.

"What we’re seeing is someone who’s a big step up for red-state Texas statewide and actually a big step down for where the majority of Democrats are nationwide. ... If we buy the Beto package, we’re gonna have buyer’s remorse later on."

O'Rourke's narrow defeat — he lost by 2.6 points in a state that hasn't elected a Democrat to the Senate since Lloyd Bentsen 30 years ago — instantly propelled him into the national conversation about Democratic presidential hopefuls.

For many Democrats, the nascent fight is counterproductive, because it distracts from the positive messages of potential candidates, including Sanders, O'Rourke and Sens. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., and Cory Booker, D-N.J.

"I don’t think there’s much appetite among Democratic voters to re-live some of the dumb Twitter fights that we saw in the 2016 primary," said Jon Favreau, a former speechwriter for President Barack Obama. "There are plenty of progressives who might run — from Beto and Bernie to Kamala and Booker and others — and I think it’s more productive to focus our time and energy talking about why we support the candidates who inspire us."

But O'Rourke's ability to connect with younger and progressive white voters — Sanders' source of strength in his losing 2016 primary against Hillary Clinton — puts him in direct competition with the Vermont senator.

A Quinnipiac University poll released Dec. 19 showed that 57 percent of voters between the ages of 18 and 34 have a favorable view of Sanders, while his unfavorable ratings are higher than his favorables with voters 35 and older. Twenty-five percent of millennials view O'Rourke favorably and 15 percent view him unfavorably, with 59 percent telling Quinnipiac they haven't heard enough about him to know how they feel.

And while the vast majority of Democrats have an opinion about Sanders, that's not true of O'Rourke yet, with 51 percent reporting they don’t have enough information to form an opinion.

That explains the rush to define him in negative terms..."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...rourke-n951016

[Tendrin]

That’s the correct response to getting an egg cracked on your head.

Well, it's clear /somebody/ likes violent reprisal.

[zinderel]

Because in 2016 it wasn't about beating the Republicans -- it was about beating Hillary.

As an independent and a relative moderate, I was repeatedly attacked online in 2016 just for pointing out the similarities between Sanders and Hillary's policies and even more so when I questioned his record on civil rights.

It wasn't about discussing facts relevant to the election -- it was about attacking Hillary and anyone who voiced support for her in the election.

Now they've moved on to Kamala and Beto -- and anyone else they see as a "threat" to their agenda.

I was registered as a member of the Oregon Working Families Party up until 2016, when I switched to Democrat to vote for Bernie in the Primary. I believed in him. But then I saw the behavior of his more...shall we say 'fervent', instead of 'cultish'?...followers, and it turned me off on him BIG time. I have no interest in following a man whose most loyal followers treat him like he's the Messiah and everyone else is an Antichrist to be destroyed, no matter the cost.

No thank you.

[PaulBullion]

Well, it's clear /somebody/ likes violent reprisal.

It is so manly to repeatedly beat up smaller boys. Makes me all tingly when MitTierHero praises that kind of Alpha virility.

[Tendrin]

It is so manly to repeatedly beat up smaller boys. Makes me all tingly when MitTierHero praises that kind of Alpha virility.

A lot of people would understand the open handed slap he started with. An out of bounds escalation in response to a harmless attempt at humilating him, sure, but it could be passed off as an understandable, if wrong.

But he had a moment where he looked at that kid, saw it was a kid, and proceeded to slug him in the face and then his followers choked him until he lost consciousness.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that 'beating someone up and choking them' is probably /not/ the correct response to having an egg cracked on you.

[PaulBullion]

A lot of people would understand the open handed slap he started with. An out of bounds escalation in response to a harmless attempt at humilating him? But he had a moment where he looked at that kid, saw it was a kid, and proceeded to slug him in the face and it's because exactly this sort of humilation is destructive to their brand. The response he gave was the only one left to him in the land of right wing hyper thuggery to protect his toxic brand... and of course, entirely and obviously revealing of who and what he is.

A small thug admired by small slugs?

[aja_christopher]

I was registered as a member of the Oregon Working Families Party up until 2016, when I switched to Democrat to vote for Bernie in the Primary. I believed in him. But then I saw the behavior of his more...shall we say 'fervent', instead of 'cultish'?...followers, and it turned me off on him BIG time. I have no interest in following a man whose most loyal followers treat him like he's the Messiah and everyone else is an Antichrist to be destroyed, no matter the cost.

No thank you.

I think a lot of us were willing to give him a chance, but many of his supporters refuse to return the favor to other candidates.

The analogy that comes to my mind is allowing a relatively civil guest (Sanders) into your home (the Democratic party) then watching as his friends come along and wreck the place because they don't like how you decorated it before they got there.

The lesson I take from that is to make sure you don't let them do the same thing the next time around.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I think a lot of us were willing to give him a chance, but many of his supporters refuse to return the favor to other candidates.

The analogy that comes to my mind is allowing a relatively civil guest (Sanders) into your home (the Democratic party) then watching as his friends come along and wreck the place because they don't like how you decorated it before they got there.

The lesson I take from that is to make sure you don't let them do the same thing the next time around.

I’m still willing to give Sanders a chance, but his followers repulse me with their fanatical fervor which I find to be nearly on par with the MAGA Maggots who slurp Donald Trump. And yeah, their refusal to play nice and support other Democratic candidates only aids and abets the GOP, and we cant have that happen again next year.

[PaulBullion]

Turns out Bernard's gaping head wound is actually stigmata.

[aja_christopher]

I’m still willing to give Sanders a chance, but his followers repulse me with their fanatical fervor which I find to be nearly on par with the MAGA Maggots who slurp Donald Trump. And yeah, their refusal to play nice and support other Democratic candidates only aids and abets the GOP, and we cant have that happen again next year.

As Knight pointed out, however, we've heard Sanders' policies already and most of us have decided accordingly.

I've repeatedly said I'll vote for him in the general if he wins the nomination -- and that won't change regardless of his supporters' behavior -- but it's a mistake to let bullies push you around, whether they claim to be "Democrats" or otherwise.

Even from just a completely rational standpoint, it's wise to use past as precedent and recognize that if they did it before, they'll probably do it again -- the difference being that they no longer have "emails", sexism, and (relatively unchecked) Russian support to aid their candidate, and with Beto (and possibly Biden) in the running, a lot of their core "demographics" will be compromised, which is why they are getting desperate.

The reasonable course of action at this point would be working together -- and not making a concentrated effort to sabotage other candidates, observing the primaries and seeing what every candidate has to offer before judging, and to staying open to whomever wins the nomination -- as getting Trump out of office should be a primary focus right now if only for the sake of our country, if not the world -- but the videos of Sanders telling his supporters to support Hillary to a chorus of boos shows that even Sanders can't make many of said supporters see reason.

Sometimes all a bully understands is getting punched back harder, and if that's what it's come to, then so be it.

[Tendrin]

A small thug admired by small slugs?

Pretty much. But look at how Richard Spencer's brand tanked after getting punched in the face. They can't recover from humiliation because of the baked in fragility of their manly images, you know?

[numberthirty]

Another thing I (up until #30 posted the hit piece on Beto) felt was too petty to bring up:
In the summer of 2018, Corey Booker came out with a "jobs guarantee" plan. As the article states, Sanders claimed he had just that kind of plan "in the works", too.

So far, no Sanders plan. I guess it will come "soon"?

If someone is talking about what you actually did, "Hit Piece" is a bit of a stretch. Matter of fact, just leaving it at a "Bit" is probably being charitable...

O'Rourke, fluent in Spanish like his father, went door-to-door trying to convince residents the city would build affordable housing elsewhere. A local historian and activist, David Romo, accused O'Rourke and his allies of destroying buildings of historic significance to Chicanos and driving immigrants from what he deemed the “Ellis Island” of the border (a phrase that O'Rourke would later use to defend El Paso against Trump's wall idea). They pointed out that his father-in-law stood to profit from the plans—and indeed, Sanders had formed the Borderplex Realty Trust for just that purpose. The city opened an ethics investigation, and though O'Rourke was cleared of wrongdoing, he recused himself in the public debate and from voting on it.

[numberthirty]

Because in 2016 it wasn't about beating the Republicans -- it was about beating Hillary.

As an independent and a relative moderate, I was repeatedly attacked online in 2016 just for pointing out the similarities between Sanders and Hillary's policies and even more so when I questioned his record on civil rights.

It wasn't about discussing facts relevant to the election -- it was about attacking Hillary and anyone who voiced support for her in the election.

Now they've moved on to Kamala and Beto -- and anyone else they see as a "threat" to their agenda.

Put simply, that Harris has been a threat to the rights of the accused is the actual issue.

[Robotman]

I’m still willing to give Sanders a chance, but his followers repulse me with their fanatical fervor which I find to be nearly on par with the MAGA Maggots who slurp Donald Trump. And yeah, their refusal to play nice and support other Democratic candidates only aids and abets the GOP, and we cant have that happen again next year.

Agreed. I personally like Sanders and love most of what he has to say but his most fervent followers have shown that they are willing to sabotage the democrats if Bernie doesn’t win. It’s why many people (me and my friends included) felt a sense of dread when he announced his candidacy for 2020. This election is far too important. Trump is one of the greatest threats our country has faced. We can’t have people casting protest votes or staying home altogether.

The democrats have a strange problem. They currently have too many good candidates. This may actually be great for Trump. It’s going to divide the hell out of the party. I really hope there is time to unite before November 2020.