Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2018

[Wind Rider]

We just need someone who knows X-Men history. It’s true over the years some of the writers who happen to be white just simply don’t know how she operates. That’s only because they don’t know their source material. Any writer that KNOWS the X-men and their rich history should know how these mutants operate. However, truth be told I don’t fault these writers TOO much because if it was me I’d make Storm front and center in every Story.

Storm suffers because writers don’t know her character at all and they don’t know their source materials. Coates is only praised because he’s proven to KNOW his material about the character. Greg Pak sane thing. He did some nice things with Storm that I enjoyed. I don’t really buy into this whole white writers black writers thing. It’s just we NEED writers who knows the character and their source material that’s it. We as fans can tell when one doesn’t. And really Editorial is also one to blame because they slack off.

Fair enough. I should clarify my “white writers” part of my comments (and technicaly we’ve had a couple of black writers that were quite shitty - Hudlin & Dickey).

Bad Storm Writers For Past 10 Years
Rosenberg
Guggenheim
Lemire
Bendis
Wood (for his X-men II run)
Bunn
Soule

Good Storm Writers In The Last 10 Years
Pak
Kim
Sumerak
Gray
W. Wilson
Coates
Wood (mixed bag)
Gischler (another mixed bag)

Honorable Mention - Nnedi Okorafor (new to the comic game)

On writers not knowing their source material - unacceptable and shame on them. That should be a standard expectation for Marvel, especially editors tasked with protecting the integrity of what makes it to print and what the long term vision is for the franchise.

Agreed. Storm has suffered from tokenism for long enough on the X-side of things. She needs a creative team dedicated to her character development and growth.

Agreed. And no reprieve in sight.

[BlkGldBlu]

God I hate your list of good writers

[skyvolt2000]

On writers not knowing their source material - unacceptable and shame on them. That should be a standard expectation for Marvel, especially editors tasked with protecting the integrity of what makes it to print and what the long term vision is for the franchise.

Okay what is your source material?

What material are you being presented with be it by editors, trades, online or floppies? What am I being given access to?

To better illustrate let me use a common victim of bad writing-John Stewart.

47 years he as been around. Excluding his GL Mosaic (not in trades) series & later run of GLC of New 52-he has 4 years of good stories. 14 years of limbo. 29 years of bad writing under the GL banner.

Now take Storm-she's in the same boat. How many good stories under the X-Man banner does she have as a LEAD? We are not talking Black Panther-we are talking X-Office.

Now of those good stories-how many are in TRADES? You listed Woods as a bad writer for Storm. That run of is one of the TOP selling X-Men runs on Amazon. Which means that run is probably in large numbers at libraries and schools.

If your editors are giving the writers runs that trash Storm-you are going to get more trashing of her. And seeing this is the X-Men-these are the stories that pack bins and way too many folks will SEE.

As with John Stewart in Justice League-it doesn't matter what is done in Black Panther with her. She is still an X-MEN FIRST. That is what is selling or not selling folks on her. And that is what is holding her BACK.

Because there is no longer no sense of urgency to build up Storm because you got Shuri, Riri, Moon Girl, Monica & Misty. So what incentive does the X-Office to build up any mutants of color?

The best thing for Storm is to get her out of the X-Office. Give her to the Black Panther franchise. Do a storyline where she loses her powers and gets a better set via Wakandan technology. Let this last a few years to build her up (while waiting for the MU X-Men to show up) and then bring her back.

Because you left her in the hands of Coates in BP-your new SOURCE material is from him and him ALONE. Now you got a new starting point for future writers. SHe still have her X-Men past but now you got new source material.

[Wind Rider]

Okay what is your source material?

What material are you being presented with be it by editors, trades, online or floppies? What am I being given access to?

The sources are the x-runs for these writers where they were responsible for Storm’s handling (lead role or not) from 2008 - current. Guggenheim’s Gold, Lemire’s run leadin up to and through IvX, etc. Wood is on both the good and bad list. The bad list pertains to his 2nd run with the all female team where Storm was the “leader” that needed OOC validation to a leader.

Okay what is your source material?

What material are you being presented with be it by editors, trades, online or floppies? What am I being given access to?

The source are the x-runs for the writers where they were responsible for Storm’s handling (lead role or not) from 2008 - current.

To better illustrate let me use a common victim of bad writing-John Stewart.

47 years he as been around. Excluding his GL Mosaic (not in trades) series & later run of GLC of New 52-he has 4 years of good stories. 14 years of limbo. 29 years of bad writing under the GL banner.

Now take Storm-she's in the same boat. How many good stories under the X-Man banner does she have as a LEAD? We are not talking Black Panther-we are talking X-Office.

Now of those good stories-how many are in TRADES? You listed Woods as a bad writer for Storm. That run of is one of the TOP selling X-Men runs on Amazon. Which means that run is probably in large numbers at libraries and schools.

Not enough good stories with her. For example, outside of her solo, within the last decade we had World’s Apart in 2008, Gray’s UXMFC was good with her (only an 8 issue mini run but was overall good), and we had Wood’s 1st run with Storm leading the Security Team (that’s why I put him on both lists) was quite good. Storm was well handled as a competent, formidable, flawed but determined leader who did what she felt was right, which has been core to her character for decades up to the shitty writer takeover. I forgot to add Aaron, Fraction and Gillen to that list of Bad Writers, along with Latour, who is a mixed bag next to Gischler on the Good list.

If your editors are giving the writers runs that trash Storm-you are going to get more trashing of her. And seeing this is the X-Men-these are the stories that pack bins and way too many folks will SEE.

As with John Stewart in Justice League-it doesn't matter what is done in Black Panther with her. She is still an X-MEN FIRST. That is what is selling or not selling folks on her. And that is what is holding her BACK.

Because there is no longer no sense of urgency to build up Storm because you got Shuri, Riri, Moon Girl, Monica & Misty. So what incentive does the X-Office to build up any mutants of color?

Agreed. As you mention Storm is first and foremost an X-Man, one of their most popular female cahracters and, arguably to a degree now, there most recognizable female of color. IMHO that should warrant the need for them to maintain a consistent effort to build her up and move her character forward. It’s a fair point that they think they other options that meet that expectation, but the reality is they don’t.

The best thing for Storm is to get her out of the X-Office. Give her to the Black Panther franchise. Do a storyline where she loses her powers and gets a better set via Wakandan technology. Let this last a few years to build her up (while waiting for the MU X-Men to show up) and then bring her back.

Because you left her in the hands of Coates in BP-your new SOURCE material is from him and him ALONE. Now you got a new starting point for future writers. SHe still have her X-Men past but now you got new source material.

I’d be HAPPY for Storm to leave the X-Men. I wouldn’t be opposed to that at all, except there is no need for her to be depowered to be in the BP franchise if they chose that option (I like her powers just the way they are with no need for wakandan anything - though I wouldn’t mind more development to further explore/expand on her CQC, thievery and escape artist skills).

Now of those good stories-how many are in TRADES? You listed Woods as a bad writer for Storm. That run of is one of the TOP selling X-Men runs on Amazon. Which means that run is probably in large numbers at libraries and schools.

No idea if they are in trade or not. If it is his first run (how he is also on the good list) then that’s understandable. That was a great read. If it’s his 2nd run with the all female team (should sell well with the A-List X-ladies all onboard), which was predominantly shitty for Storm, then that sucks because she was handled quite poorly throughout that entire run.

[nj06]

Animated goodness:

[LordAllMIghty]

Animated goodness:

As much as I hated her white costume...I find as I get older I miss her over dramatic command over the elements.

[nj06]

As much as I hated her white costume...I find as I get older I miss her over dramatic command over the elements.

I love how over-dramatic she was in the 90's cartoon. She was so extra for no reason and I took it all in.

[stormphoenix]

Animated goodness:

LOL the first panel makes me laugh. She claps her hands and thrust forward. :-) Still good tho

[butterflykyss]

Would love to get a Storm or X-Men or small black hero team/villain roster to write for Marvel.

i really wish the crew would have done better than it did. marvel (non-xoffice) side does attempt to have diverse stories but when they occur they get little support. i'm not sure if it's the story being told, the fact that it is an all-black cast or combo of both but i hope marvel continues to try with these titles.

I think its a cool power but like...where is magic? Where is cosmic energy? Where is the dark force?

well when you put it like that lol.

I prefer her to be completely immune like Claremont mentioned in classic Uncanny, and I think that should be true for the atmospheric forces she controls. My resistance development is based on how Marvel has canonized (incuding the OHOTMUs), so if we are stuck with resistance then give her total concious control of her own body up to the edge of space (which is hundreds of degrees below 0). So both autonomous and concious control.

it wasn't just the classic issues of uncanny where Ororo was stated to be completely immune. Claremont made this point in the arena saga as well:



The thing is, I think Claremont made it clear that she was immune to the elements but this can be compromised if her mind, body, and soul are not in perfect harmony. Lobdell came after the older Uncanny stuff and tried to make it seem ridiculous that she would be immune to the elements, but this goes to the point that has bothered me with most of the xwriters non-Claremont, that is they focus on what she can't do instead of going beyond the limits of her power. I mean these same stories had Iceman tapping into his potential, showing how awesome Bishop and Colossus (as well as his brother) were but in the same breathe even though Lobdell gave her some nice showings I feel a lot was done to curtail what Claremont had done, which was unnecessary IMO. But i see your point. I believe that a sound argument can be made on either side about her immunity or being resistant but as you know I ebb on the side of her being immune with the exception her mind, body and/or spirit is adversely.

Right. But I feel like all we have bene getting are white writers who have no interest, passion or ability to write characters of color so we end up suffering. Like Storm has to be on these rosters because she’s popular but the writers have no idea what to do with her in terms of development. I simply don’t find it that hard, but then again I have a lot of passion for the character. Rosenberg stated his top faves are pretty much all white - Cyclops, Polaris, Magik....

I find that there writing style is more than apparent who will job, be ineffective, be incompetent, be indecisive, etc at the cost of that characters growth for their fave to shine. They may argue that Storm is present, she has lines, she’s leading blah blah blah....but they way they’ve handle her thus far makes it clear they will sacrifice the token characters of color to elevate their faves.

Exactly agreed agreed and agreed to all of this. I always say, there isn't a coincidence that the instances she became a potential omega-level mutant, interactions beyond the Xmen explored, and becoming an actual Goddess all occurred under black writers.

Agreed. Storm has suffered from tokenism for long enough on the X-side of things. She needs a creative team dedicated to her character development and growth.

Yes indeed!

Fair enough. I should clarify my “white writers” part of my comments (and technicaly we’ve had a couple of black writers that were quite shitty - Hudlin & Dickey).

Bad Storm Writers For Past 10 Years
Rosenberg
Guggenheim
Lemire
Bendis
Wood (for his X-men II run)
Bunn
Soule

Good Storm Writers In The Last 10 Years
Pak
Kim
Sumerak
Gray
W. Wilson
Coates
Wood (mixed bag)
Gischler (another mixed bag)

Honorable Mention - Nnedi Okorafor (new to the comic game)

On writers not knowing their source material - unacceptable and shame on them. That should be a standard expectation for Marvel, especially editors tasked with protecting the integrity of what makes it to print and what the long term vision is for the franchise.


Agreed. And no reprieve in sight.

This was all really well put together. I think to your point about the race of the writer just being black does not mean you will write Ororo in the best light as we saw from Dickey and Hudlin, but I think having that black experience does help in wanting to show the character in the best light they can be shown. Again, black writers were responsible for her ties to communities and her family outside the xmen being further explored, her being a potential omega-level mutant, her being a queen of a nation, and her being an actual goddess. These writers (some better executed than others) looked to expand her profile and not limit her to being just an xman whose only desire in life is professor's dream or simply being the matriarch of the xkids.

oan of the good writers wat stories did the following write:
Kim
Sumerak
Gray

[butterflykyss]

Animated goodness:

there still has yet to be an animated xmen series as good as the 90s xmen cartoon.

[Wind Rider]

i really wish the crew would have done better than it did. marvel (non-xoffice) side does attempt to have diverse stories but when they occur they get little support. i'm not sure if it's the story being told, the fact that it is an all-black cast or combo of both but i hope marvel continues to try with these titles.

They have tried, that is true. I think the most important issues I have encountered, at least IMHO, is that the stories are not compelling reads and they do not tie in, at least not a way that matters, to a larger/more popular main MU story line. Like with The Crew - good characterization for Storm and the rest of the cast but..... the story wasn't that compelling and I don't think the cast was challenged in way that would make an impact on readers to make them care (they were written down to fit a street level threat that most of them could cakewalk solo). That writing team should have went for something MUCH bigger. Like ignoring the repetitive slump the X-Men are in with the same boring stories for the last 10 years (i.e. survival, PF until I puke) and looking at the Avengers - they've gotten FAR better, diversified, and passionately written stories (I collect them periodically for SW or BW).

it wasn't just the classic issues of uncanny where Ororo was stated to be completely immune. Claremont made this point in the arena saga as well.....The thing is, I think Claremont made it clear that she was immune to the elements but this can be compromised if her mind, body, and soul are not in perfect harmony. Lobdell came after the older Uncanny stuff and tried to make it seem ridiculous that she would be immune to the elements, but this goes to the point that has bothered me with most of the xwriters non-Claremont, that is they focus on what she can't do instead of going beyond the limits of her power. I mean these same stories had Iceman tapping into his potential, showing how awesome Bishop and Colossus (as well as his brother) were but in the same breathe even though Lobdell gave her some nice showings I feel a lot was done to curtail what Claremont had done, which was unnecessary IMO. But i see your point. I believe that a sound argument can be made on either side about her immunity or being resistant but as you know I ebb on the side of her being immune with the exception her mind, body and/or spirit is adversely.

Understood. I think Lobdell, even after admitting he just didn't get Storm, should have just left well enough alone or consulted with CC to get a feel of where he should go with her.

Ultimately, how I have always seen her immunity, is that her powers protect her from the forces of the atmosphere (i.e. heat, cold, pressure, air friction, channeling electric current,radiation), but there were always limits; even in the classic X-Men period. Like she should be able to handle natural lightning (the current, the 50K degrees of heat, the light intensity, etc) because her body is designed to channel it, but could be harmed by a 500,000 degree heat blast because that goes WAY beyond the natural limit of the world she's bonded too/what her body is designed to handle. Immunity means she could never be burned no matter the degree of heat, which I think it's fair and reasonable that she would be if it didn't come from the natural forces she wields.

This was all really well put together. I think to your point about the race of the writer just being black does not mean you will write Ororo in the best light as we saw from Dickey and Hudlin, but I think having that black experience does help in wanting to show the character in the best light they can be shown. Again, black writers were responsible for her ties to communities and her family outside the xmen being further explored, her being a potential omega-level mutant, her being a queen of a nation, and her being an actual goddess. These writers (some better executed than others) looked to expand her profile and not limit her to being just an xman whose only desire in life is professor's dream or simply being the matriarch of the xkids.

True and I do credit Hudlin with the few good things he did for Storm with respect to her family, but the bad far outweighs the good with him for me. Coates - for me the jury is still deliberating. I have liked most of what we've gotten so far from him and Okorafor, but I am not also not 100% sold. Like while I like the exploration of her being the Hadari Yao and possessing the gift of Godhead, but I felt it was very regressive for him to ignore the fact that she has well managed her claustrophobia for years (time to come up with a new and more substantial challenge for her growth) and her initial introduction in The Crew was terrible. T'Challa called in The Crew, and while I liked the way they engaged each other (like close old friends) they jobbed big time. Also, her TP resistance could have been handled better too.

oan of the good writers wat stories did the following write:
Kim
Sumerak
Gray

Chuck Kim - Curse of the Mutants - Storm & Gambit
Mark Sumerak - Ororo: Before the Storm
Scott Gray - Uncanny X-Men First Class

There are a few more but I'm only going back to 2008 to current (should've included Yost)

[Rosa Snarks]

Animated goodness:

Ugh. Evo Storm was a bad ***** i stan

[butterflykyss]

They have tried, that is true. I think the most important issues I have encountered, at least IMHO, is that the stories are not compelling reads and they do not tie in, at least not a way that matters, to a larger/more popular main MU story line. Like with The Crew - good characterization for Storm and the rest of the cast but..... the story wasn't that compelling and I don't think the cast was challenged in way that would make an impact on readers to make them care (they were written down to fit a street level threat that most of them could cakewalk solo). That writing team should have went for something MUCH bigger. Like ignoring the repetitive slump the X-Men are in with the same boring stories for the last 10 years (i.e. survival, PF until I puke) and looking at the Avengers - they've gotten FAR better, diversified, and passionately written stories (I collect them periodically for SW or BW).

I agree with all of this. As much as I liked the crew I understand the point being made about the story not being compelling. Additionally, you make a great point about it not tying in to the larger/more popular main MU stories. For titles like these to be successful it is essential that the Main stories link to the satellite ones. And as much as the Avengers bore me you are absolutely right about being FAR BETTER diversified and passionate in telling new and creative stories.

Understood. I think Lobdell, even after admitting he just didn't get Storm, should have just left well enough alone or consulted with CC to get a feel of where he should go with her.

Ultimately, how I have always seen her immunity, is that her powers protect her from the forces of the atmosphere (i.e. heat, cold, pressure, air friction, channeling electric current,radiation), but there were always limits; even in the classic X-Men period. Like she should be able to handle natural lightning (the current, the 50K degrees of heat, the light intensity, etc) because her body is designed to channel it, but could be harmed by a 500,000 degree heat blast because that goes WAY beyond the natural limit of the world she's bonded too/what her body is designed to handle. Immunity means she could never be burned no matter the degree of heat, which I think it's fair and reasonable that she would be if it didn't come from the natural forces she wields.

BISH!!!! Really?? I didn't know he admitted to this. Do you have a link or reference to him making this admission? It would definitely explain a lot. The most unfortunate thing is that I believe the 90s set the tone for how she would be written many of the subsequent stories that followed which was a big disservice to the character. Though he had some nice moments for her this inability to fully grasp how her power worked i think was the catalyst that lead to current writers who didn't think her powers worked in space or that she had to have "weather" or an atmosphere for her powers to work. It is quite a shame. And agreed, I think anything that she would naturally control she should be immune to so her being burned by a heat blast of that degree would not be unreasonable.

True and I do credit Hudlin with the few good things he did for Storm with respect to her family, but the bad far outweighs the good with him for me. Coates - for me the jury is still deliberating. I have liked most of what we've gotten so far from him and Okorafor, but I am not also not 100% sold. Like while I like the exploration of her being the Hadari Yao and possessing the gift of Godhead, but I felt it was very regressive for him to ignore the fact that she has well managed her claustrophobia for years (time to come up with a new and more substantial challenge for her growth) and her initial introduction in The Crew was terrible. T'Challa called in The Crew, and while I liked the way they engaged each other (like close old friends) they jobbed big time. Also, her TP resistance could have been handled better too.

LOLOL I don't disagree about the bad writing part in reference to Hudlin. The characterization was way off the mark. I just wanted to give him his due credit in relation to making her a queen and being a potential omega level mutant. Though his execution was lacking I don't think anyone could argue that he wasn't trying to elevate her importance within the MU. Yea i didn't care for the TP resistance (that being credited to Xavier as opposed to the static discharge in her brain, and the claustrophobia I didn't see it as necessarily regressive. It would be one thing for her to go willing into a sewer and the space getting tighter versus huge amounts of rocks falling over you where you have very little space to move/breathe. A similar thing happened when Willow Wilson wrote her in the burning man story. however, i do understand your points. For me Coates writing is spot on. Not only did he tie his storyline an obscure Uncanny issue where Adversary mentioned fearing Ororo, but also linked her up to having a tighter connection with her father's community harlem when she had down time when the Xmen were "dead" in the Outback. Add to this he made her a literal african/wakandan goddess. The man has definitely done his homework and the few missteps in terms of her power I can forgive when we consider how much he has done to elevate her profile.

Chuck Kim - Curse of the Mutants - Storm & Gambit
Mark Sumerak - Ororo: Before the Storm
Scott Gray - Uncanny X-Men First Class

There are a few more but I'm only going back to 2008 to current (should've included Yost)

I think i have asked you this before lol. thanks for being patient and relisting again. it sucks getting old

Ugh. Evo Storm was a bad ***** i stan

B!tch where you been hiding??????

Hey friends!!! So the petition has FINALLY made to 300 signatures. Slow and steady but still moving forward. Please sign if you havent and share with your friends/family:


https://www.change.org/p/marvel-marv...dari-yao-4ever

I wanted to share some old uncanny scans I came across that goes against some who would argue Claremont didnt write ororo as a black woman. see below:









I remember posters some time ago posting scans of when she was referred to a child out of context and after seeing these many times that she was explicitly called black it annoyed me a bit. at any rate, I know there is not a need to do this now but still wanted to share to disprove anyone who still would argue otherwuse.

[LordAllMIghty]

I remember posters some time ago posting scans of when she was referred to a child out of context and after seeing these many times that she was explicitly called black it annoyed me a bit. at any rate, I know there is not a need to do this now but still wanted to share to disprove anyone who still would argue otherwuse.

Keep this in your files...just incase that conversation comes up again.

[stormphoenix]

Keep this in your files...just incase that conversation comes up again.

Or you can ask me. I'm the scan Prince. Ya Need Scans I GOT YOU. :-)