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  1. #4336
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    I'd honestly rather have a new DCEU cartoon universe and let the movies be more stand-alone.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  2. #4337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How do you mean?
    I think I like heroic characters best when they're professional. The drama of Batman's betrayal comes from the idea that not only are they comrades but friends as well. If they don't expect to be friends in the first place, then much of that drama is lessened, and that makes me happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Maybe we don't need a Justice League or a shared universe.
    I actually prefer solo universes as a whole. I always liked how DC Heroes operated in different cities. It saves us the question of why they don't team-up more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    I'd honestly rather have a new DCEU cartoon universe and let the movies be more stand-alone.
    I tend to like TV shows more than movies cause you're able to do more with a cartoon than a movie.

  3. #4338
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I think I like heroic characters best when they're professional. The drama of Batman's betrayal comes from the idea that not only are they comrades but friends as well. If they don't expect to be friends in the first place, then much of that drama is lessened, and that makes me happy.
    The problem with that idea is that superheroism just, isn't really "professional" as a general rule. Sure some are, but a lot really aren't.
    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    I can go either way, tbh. There's a part of me that loves Silver and Bronze Age-style stories where everyone's chummy chummy, but then there's that part of me that loves the idea that they all just see each other as business associates. They trust each other with their lives, but outside of that their civilian lives are their own.
    Sure, but....it's USEFUL having allies know how to help you protect your secrets.

  4. #4339
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I think I like heroic characters best when they're professional. The drama of Batman's betrayal comes from the idea that not only are they comrades but friends as well. If they don't expect to be friends in the first place, then much of that drama is lessened, and that makes me happy.
    Personally, I'm the complete reverse. What I like from these characters is preceisely the fact that their relationships are, mroe often than not, personal. They should be friends (good friends, bad friends etc) and the drama (or lack thereof) should come from that. Them being purely professional or work coleagues or whatever feels like they lose part of their essence adn bores me quickly.

  5. #4340
    Incredible Member thefinalguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    I'd honestly rather have a new DCEU cartoon universe and let the movies be more stand-alone.
    I actually think a push for big-budget animation would be a smart move for DC. It's what they're known for anyway and for a story perspective more can be done.

    I'd prefer they let directors just drive the universe and tell what stories are necessary and how. One big universe is clearly marketable but more niche movies I do think are smart. It just needs variation. And, to some extent, I think we're getting that.
    Currently Reading: DC v. Vampires / Batman: Urban Legends / Robin / Nightwing / Mister Miracle: The Source of Freedom

  6. #4341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Then he fails, same as if any hero dies before stopping a threat. But what if he needs these plans by tomorrow, but it'd take him six months to get what he needs? Sorry world, you got thrown into the Phantom Zone because Bruce either wanted to be nice and not prepare for the next time Clark gets mind controlled, or Bruce told Clark how he'd go about stopping him and Clark decided not to be a total moron and adjusted his plans to get around Bruce's.
    I pointed out that he doesn't have to tell the League the details of the plans. You can't adjust for a plan if you don't know what it is.

    Also, you talk about the importance of Bruce having contingencies against rogue Leaguers but don't seem bothered by him not planning for what could happen if he can't even carry out those contingencies.


    Come now, we *know* they are that powerful. Clark has pushed planets and moons out of orbit.
    When was the last time he did that without help from other heroes?

    There's a Lantern who famously blew up a planet and DC never let anyone forget it.

    If you're talking about John Stewart and Xanshu, he didn't do that by himself. A device destroyed the planet and John failed to stop it because it was yellow.

    And Darkseid and the Anti-Monitor are well beyond "planet breaker" status, so yeah it still requires a team (of planet breakers) to challenge them.

    I get that some folks like the League to be buddy-buddy, with absolute trust in each other, but this isn't about them liking or trusting each other, it's about the responsibility they carry. There's maybe a dozen people on earth who could stop a rogue Leaguer who was serious about burning everything to ash and willing to use their full resources; half of those people are the other Leaguers and the rest are would-be tyrants and despots who make the cure worse than the disease. Optimism is one thing, being naïve another. And almost every Leaguer, in continuity, has gone rogue at one point or another for whatever reason. It's crazy to think they don't have plans in mind to deal with such events, and crazier still to think they'd forewarn everyone by sharing everything.

    But clearly I like my heroes a little more pragmatic than you do, and that's cool, different strokes and all that.
    Again, I stated that they did not have to share everything.

  7. #4342
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Sure, but....it's USEFUL having allies know how to help you protect your secrets.
    Oh, I agree. It can be useful. It can also be entertaining, too. But I also enjoy stories where they all don't have that level of trust. Sometimes making things easier for the protagonist doesn't necessarily make for the better story. Pretty much just looking at this from a story perspective.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  8. #4343
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Oh, I agree. It can be useful. It can also be entertaining, too. But I also enjoy stories where they all don't have that level of trust. Sometimes making things easier for the protagonist doesn't necessarily make for the better story. Pretty much just looking at this from a story perspective.
    Some groups, like the Titans, knowing one another's identities is fine. Considering half of them, like Victor and Gar, kind of stick out pretty badly anyway.

  9. #4344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Some groups, like the Titans, knowing one another's identities is fine. Considering half of them, like Victor and Gar, kind of stick out pretty badly anyway.
    True. It doesn't apply everywhere. Titans is a notable exception.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  10. #4345
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    I think the constant need to keep the Titans and Young Justice together as teams has overall hurt the characters on those teams because many of them haven’t gotten many good stories separate from the team- there’s characters I like on both teams, but I barely read anything with them because they are stuck with a bunch of other goofballs I’m not interested in. While I personally like the “classic” JL team, I think in most cases that characters need to be rotated through teams and then have time separate in order to really shine. Whether that time is a solo book or “family” book, I think it’s pure benefit. I’ve actually found that I like Cassie quite a bit when she’s treated as a Wonder family character rather than a Young Justice character.

    And maybe not unpopular, but I think Death of the JL and the pushing of the new characters is going to crash and burn in a way that will lead to DC pulling another crisis and wasting page space on something that will have no long lasting fans.

  11. #4346
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Thing with rotation is that you can't really go back to being Young Justice character when you spend some time on JL, no? Everyone will see it as a downgrade and well, if you move around couple of key characters like that then Young Justice brand might die entirely since DC hasn't really been able to introduce new iconic Titans/YJ characters that could carry their respective teams.

    Cassie moving away from YJ to spend few years in WW books or even have her own mini makes more sense to me.

  12. #4347
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Hmm... one thing I keep pondering... how many Martians being evil does it take to consider both the White and GREEN Martians as evil races?

    Note: M'Gann M'Orzz... is a WHITE...

    Yeah... I can't think of any Green that's a good guy other than J'onn.

  13. #4348
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Thing with rotation is that you can't really go back to being Young Justice character when you spend some time on JL, no? Everyone will see it as a downgrade and well, if you move around couple of key characters like that then Young Justice brand might die entirely since DC hasn't really been able to introduce new iconic Titans/YJ characters that could carry their respective teams.

    Cassie moving away from YJ to spend few years in WW books or even have her own mini makes more sense to me.
    Point taken, though I wasn’t really thinking of the JL itself, just literally any other team, even new ones. Something like you suggest for Cassie might make more sense too. I’m just at the point that if we’re going to keep allllll the legacy characters around, they should at least try new directions with them or something.

    Of course, another unpopular opinion, but the only truly good TT story is Judas Contract (warts and all- I argue it’s even more shocking if you actually just accept what you are told and try not to clean it up in your head.) I think that is also why it’s kind of a sticking point for so many- the best TT story is also one of DCs most controversial stories in general. I haven’t read enough YJ to make any calls, there’s characters there I’m already not a fan of.

  14. #4349
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Thing with rotation is that you can't really go back to being Young Justice character when you spend some time on JL, no? Everyone will see it as a downgrade
    True. I've seen plenty of people who complained about Cyborg leaving the Titans for the League complain about Vic being "demoted" back to the Titans.

    But this is only a problem if the character joins the League. I don't think people would have the same problem if, for example, Raven joined the Birds of Prey for a time. If she ever returned to the Titans brand, it'd be seen as a lateral movement rather than a demotion.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  15. #4350
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    This kinda makes me wish we got more non Titans/JL team titles but they don't seem to last very long.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nonetheless):
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