Barry Allen (DC) and Henry Pym (Marvel) in the 1980s: parallel developments?

[Buried Alien]

During the 1980s, I started, but never finished the story of Henry Pym's fall from and return to grace in the pages of THE AVENGERS. I finally started revisiting that story and catching up with what I had missed when I stopped following THE AVENGERS in the mid-1980s.

It seems like during a period from the late 1970s and early 1980s, DC and Marvel were cribbing some ideas from each other in terms of story ideas for Barry Allen (the Flash) and Henry Pym (Ant Man, Giant Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket). Barry and Henry seemed to have many story and character beats in common.

1. Both were the resident scientists on their respective teams, the Justice League and the Avengers.

2. Both were married men (among the very few on their teams at the time).

3. Both were Silver Age stalwarts who had been members of their respective teams from the beginning.

4. Both began to see their relationships with their wives change in dramatic ways: Barry suffered Iris being murdered by the Reverse Flash, while Hank became a domestic abuser who struck Janet.

5. Both committed acts that brought them under scrutiny by their fellow superheroes and saw them temporarily booted from their teams: Barry resigned from the Justice League while he was on trial for the death of the Reverse Flash, and Hank was booted from the Avengers due to his personal and legal problems (the latter of which were masterminded by his archenemy Egghead). It would be many years before Barry rejoined the Justice League (not until well after his return from a two-decade "death") and Hank rejoined the Avengers (he was working with them again before the 80s were over, but many more years would pass before he became a full-time, costumed member of the team again).

6. Both saw the trajectories of their previously stable stories drastically and permanently altered by story developments in the late 1970s and early 1980s, whose echoes are still heard today more than forty years later.

Do you think the writers of Barry's and Hank's stories at DC and Marvel during the late 1970s and 1980s were taking cues from each other and trying to up the ante with both of these characters?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Riv86672]

^^^I doubt it was done on purpose. Interesting parallels though!

[James Cameron]

Great analysis Buried, I never considered these parralels before. These are two characters I absolutely love. Hank's downfall was Jim Shooter's attempt to tough upon real life psychological trauma in the Marvel books - he claims that he spoke to a marriage counselor on an airplane before the slap issue was published and that he tried to approach it with grace. He absolutely did not. It was weak and it forever tarnished his reputation as a character. Barry's development imo was perfect and much better executed. That whole pre-Crisis Flash title is just golden.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

I've read a few things here and there that suggest Shooter viewed Hank Pym as a "failed" character, compared to the likes of fellow Avengers founders like Thor and Iron Man, and that at one point he was considering Pym for a story about a hero who becomes a villain permanently.

[Holt]

Hank was interesting because they essentially worked the fact that the writers had no idea what to do with him into a meta plot point with his identity crisis.

[Lightning Rider]

Never considered this parallel but definitely interesting. I think the similarities speaks to the increased realism in Bronze Age comics, and maybe speaks to the nature of the companies' editorial outlooks that Hank was willing to be kind of sacrified as a purely heroic character, whereas Barry's accusations weren't so horrible as to truly sully his character. I'm sure I've read about the state of Flash and thoughts behinds the scenes at the time the Trial events started, but curious to hear/read more.

[Refrax5]

During the 1980s, I started, but never finished the story of Henry Pym's fall from and return to grace in the pages of THE AVENGERS. I finally started revisiting that story and catching up with what I had missed when I stopped following THE AVENGERS in the mid-1980s.

It seems like during a period from the late 1970s and early 1980s, DC and Marvel were cribbing some ideas from each other in terms of story ideas for Barry Allen (the Flash) and Henry Pym (Ant Man, Giant Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket). Barry and Henry seemed to have many story and character beats in common.

1. Both were the resident scientists on their respective teams, the Justice League and the Avengers.

2. Both were married men (among the very few on their teams at the time).

3. Both were Silver Age stalwarts who had been members of their respective teams from the beginning.

4. Both began to see their relationships with their wives change in dramatic ways: Barry suffered Iris being murdered by the Reverse Flash, while Hank became a domestic abuser who struck Janet.

5. Both committed acts that brought them under scrutiny by their fellow superheroes and saw them temporarily booted from their teams: Barry resigned from the Justice League while he was on trial for the death of the Reverse Flash, and Hank was booted from the Avengers due to his personal and legal problems (the latter of which were masterminded by his archenemy Egghead). It would be many years before Barry rejoined the Justice League (not until well after his return from a two-decade "death") and Hank rejoined the Avengers (he was working with them again before the 80s were over, but many more years would pass before he became a full-time, costumed member of the team again).

6. Both saw the trajectories of their previously stable stories drastically and permanently altered by story developments in the late 1970s and early 1980s, whose echoes are still heard today more than forty years later.

Do you think the writers of Barry's and Hank's stories at DC and Marvel during the late 1970s and 1980s were taking cues from each other and trying to up the ante with both of these characters?


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That's an interesting take and some cool parallels. Maybe that explains why I've always kind of liked Hank Pym as a character. Even though I'm utterly useless at science, I for some reason love a lot of characters that are those kind of tough, adventurous scientist superheroes getting into all sort of weird, offbeat adventures.