Well, in terms of design, classic Cyborg is probably one of the comics' worst... like ever. I'm not even exaggerating. To me that design pretty much is the representation of the statement "everything wrong with the comics". Not that I think "junkheap" is a real solution, but in contrast, it is an improvement. I'd say ditch the whole outdated design altogether. He's fused with a damn Mother Box. Nanotechnology should've been mastered by him like yesteryear. And with that him completely ditching the chunky look to a sleek "neoborg" that can morph his limbs into whatever weapon at will and only gets "armored" when needed.
Something with this line of thought:
(base)
andre-gemineye-rogers-selfportrait-cyborg.jpg
(combat form)
b8e3440d60cdefbf02765810b83dbb16.jpg
Give him a red DBZ like Scouter to honor the classic look and... IMO, perfect rebranding right there.
Of course he is.
When you are pandering to certain fandom who would throw fits if you didn't water him down or take elements from the show.
When Tony complained about the Outsiders-we saw some folsk including store owners rip Tony's book and defend Hill's version. With one store screaming nobody bought YOUR book Tony. Which is funny since the trade had zero issues finding an audience and outselling Hill's Outsiders trade.
Dc is so scared of offending that vocal minority that we see this brick wall that not jsut BL hits but Cyborg as well. As if Cyborg being more popualr that Harley or Batman is doomsday.
Meanwhile at the House of Mouse the world did not end with Black Panther and Miles Morales films winning Oscars. Carol Danvers making a billion. The checks at Marvel still cleared.
Dc has to get to that point. You can A list talent Hal, Bruce, WW and others all you like but that doesn't help Cyborg.
Folks keep seeing better version of Cyborg outside of comics. Which mean even if someone asked for more-can't give it to them because that version can't be found in comics. Money lost.
Upgrades: For the better part of 30 years, Black Panther was just a Captain America substitute with sharper senses and no shield, until Priest got into his full potential. What if you cyborgized Mr. Terrific just slightly; link his T-Spheres directly into his neural system:
- Make his reflexes and metabolic processes superhuman.
- Give him the ability to project an AI avatar into virtual space (a sciency version of astral projection).
- Make him what amounts to an electronic telepath.
- Etc.
Above all, make his arsenal flexible, to reflect his genius intellect.
Like you, I've always thought that both Mr. Terrifics lacked a distinctive hook, although the current one far less than the original. It wouldn't take much (beyond a really good, really committed writer). DC kind of lacks for superheroes in the middle space between say, Nightwing and Green Lantern. Mr. Terrific could occupy that spot with adventures that range almost any level of the DCU (except, possibly, the mystical planes).
The Motherbox addition is something I actually dislike about Cyborg. Rather than Man Achieving Oneness With Technology, it's Outside Forces Upgrading Man. To me, that's an agency thing (IMO, that's also a limitation on Green Lantern).
Last edited by DrNewGod; 06-29-2020 at 11:54 AM.
Agreed, I like Martian Manhunter and Cyborg just fine but I hated putting them on the same pedestal as the big 6. Besides being good characters, Clark, Bruce, GL, Flash, Diana and Arthur have good stories behind them with their own corners of the dcu, mythos, side characters, their own villains. I don’t think J’onn or Vick have that at all.
Black Lightning on the other hand while it would a lot of push and talent, he’s got all the right ingredients to be an A lister, which is more than I can say for Cyborg (who again, I like just fine).
You could, but I don't think it would work as well (and this is just me, obviously). Holt is a futurist but thematically he's more about the unbridled potential of the human intellect and what we could achieve, and less about questioning the nature of humanity itself, and where the limits of that are. Similar themes to be sure, but aimed at different targets. Holt is basically chasing the horizon while Vic's looking within, and while you could combine those two things into Holt, I feel like you'd probably lose something in the translation.
Besides, this basically just makes Holt more like Vic and I'd rather make Vic more like what Vic should be. If that makes any sense?
But yeah, DC could definitely do this. It's not necessarily something I'd want to see, but who knows? Maybe I'd be sold on it.
I felt the same way at first, but the idea grew on me. It does remove the "100% Made in the USA" (by which I mean humanity) element, but I think the pro's outweigh the con's. Or at least they could and should; The comics has utterly failed Victor Stone in every way they can, but the concepts at play have value.The Motherbox addition is something I actually dislike about Cyborg. Rather than Man Achieving Oneness With Technology, it's Outside Forces Upgrading Man. To me, that's an agency thing (IMO, that's also a limitation on Green Lantern).
I favor the Knight family and Starman mantle for that "look what man can do, with only his own resources and mind, and no magic hats and alien wands" theme anyway.
"We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."
~ Black Panther.
I love the "Cyborg is a Human Mother Box" thing. I think it's never been done to its fullest potential, but it's definitely a cool concept.
Here's a pretty spicy hot take - I think Cyborg looking inward and doubting his own humanity and all that gets boring really fast if it's not balanced with just - Cyborg being really fun and cool. The Teen Titans animated series made Cyborg a legitimate mainstream star, and after granting him that kind of mainstream status via membership in the League, DC has just kept on going back to the same tired well of Cyborg being introspective, mopey, and angry all the time, 'cause he's not sure if he's human or not.
The cartoon had a lot of good Cyborg episodes where he did that kinda thing, but it worked well in contrast to Cyborg's normally fun-loving and carefree personality. It gave him hidden depths. The way DC treats him, he doesn't have hidden depths, he's just kind of a depressing person.
Even stories that do a good job with those questions, like his (I thought pretty solid) DC You arc, or his role in YJ: Outsiders, still often lack, or have in painfully small amounts, that joie de vivre that made a generation fall in love with Vic Stone to begin with.
The two major live action portrayals of Cyborg illustrate this pretty well. Look, I don't want to give Ray Fisher any more crap than he's had to deal with, because he was robbed, and hopefully we'll get more of him after Zack Snyder's Justice League comes out next year - but just because he was robbed in the theatrical cut, I haven't gotten any sense that he's gonna have more of that joie de vivre in Snyder's version. And sure, it's a dark story about a dark time in Vic's life, I get it, it's reasonable - but it's not reflective of the reason why a casual fan would be excited to hear that Cyborg was in the Justice League movie to begin with. Expectation: Boo-yah! Reality: Boo-hoo!
Joivan Wade's Cyborg is pretty much the opposite. He's got depth, he's got darkness, he's got secrets, but his default approach is to be upbeat and fun, and an effective super-hero. Probably he wouldn't have fit into the DCEU in the slightest, but it's hard not to feel that he's just... constructed with more awareness of what people like about Cyborg.
"You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."
I think the problem was the rights issues with Tony Isabella. Once those finally got resolved more or less they had Isabella do a mini-series not long after the show was announced, and he was the one who wrote the girls out as his daughters.
I think Outsiders is just an instance of DC being economical with certain characters and putting them together in a book under the Bat-Branding for maximum sales.
For me you have to convince me that the person you replace J'onn with is a good fit for the team and the Big Seven dynamic.
I mean, Outsiders just followed his original Wolfman/Perez character development of being this angsty, angry, and sullen guy into the hero people would more recognize from the Teen Titans cartoon.
Well, which comic Cyborg are we talking about? None of the New 52 heroes felt like they changed at all in the supposed five year timeskip to where you could assume it was just a month between arcs. And that run still developed him past being "man or machine."
I don't think "man or machine" came up at all during Johns' Titans. Maybe briefly during his Flash run when Johns brought back Cyborg's iconic look, but it wasn't dwelled on.
BLack Lightning is a much better character with his daughters in his life.
Last edited by Will Evans; 06-29-2020 at 03:27 PM.