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  1. #991
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    If you give up on the idea that there has to be one main universe, then it's more likely that your favourite universe gets to live and exist alongside the other universes.
    I disagree, that's all. I think without a main universe, there will be no real universes. Instead, each run will have it's own continuity, and with every change in creative team, there'll be a new run and nothing from the old will matter anymore. Maybe that won't happen, but I think it's the most likely outcome. Well, that or times when the Green Lantern writer says it takes place in the same universe as Batman and then the Batman writer says no it doesn't.

    So I prefer to believe that my favourite universes still exist and can be returned to at any time, without the need for continuity breaking crisis events. I would much rather that DC published comics that were each set in different continuities, so I'd have a chance of getting the one I like.
    I just think we're more apt to end up with no continuing continuities, rather than several. Instead there will dozens of short-term (for one series, none lasting more than 5 years and many less than 2 years) continuities that never get revisited.

  2. #992
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I actually liked the Justice League movie. And have no desire to see the Snyder cut.
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  3. #993
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I'm going to disagree that Milestone HAD to do a story with a single black female teen pregnancy. I mean, it's nothing that offends me or anything, even if I can think of a many other things I'd rather see a black female hero involved with, but that didn't have to be done.
    Well, I think what Milestone *had* to do is a murky concept. They didn't *have* to do anything. This is art, after all, and *had* is.....troublesome, yknow?

    Now, I'm not an expert here. I haven't read and watched interviews, I haven't spent hours digging into the deeper subtext between the stories and the people who made them. And in general I'm just kind of an idiot anyway. So Im just guessing at what Milestone's creators were thinking. And I don't know how old you are and whether you'd remember this decade. But the early 90's was a very different place. And I think what Milestone was setting out to do was create stories that spoke directly to their audience on a very personal, relatable level. Inner city black kids have it rough, and it was worse in the 90's. There was no Obama, no Neil DeGrasse Tyson. No one outside of male athletes, rappers, or the occasional actor were showing up on tv for anything other than crime (and those athletes, rappers, and actors weren't immune to that either). And I think Milestone wanted to tell these poor kids who had the whole world stacked against them that they could turn it around. They needed role models who looked like them, came from the same place they came from, and were written and created by the same. That sort of thing largely just didn't exist in pop culture then. What we had were a few, rare handful of black characters, usually created by middle aged white guys, often created to exploit some Hollywood fad like Blaxploitation, and managed by old white guys.

    Milestone *could* have done a steampunk fantasy series with a black lead (and I'm sure I'd have loved it then just as much as I'd love it now). But that fantasy hero probably wasn't going to resonate with Milestone's intended audience the way Static did. Even if it held the same message but did everything through fantasy-based proxies and allegory, it wouldn't have resonated the way seeing someone just like you, from a place just like your's, would.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  4. #994
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    I'd like to see all the heroes get their own city to protect. It's nice that Batman has inspired so many, but the number of heroes in Gotham does not need to be equal to the number of rogues.

  5. #995
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    If every DC city was a fictional city, I would be fine with that. It can sometimes get a bit too confusing when there are both real cities and fictional cities occupying the same space.

  6. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If every DC city was a fictional city, I would be fine with that. It can sometimes get a bit too confusing when there are both real cities and fictional cities occupying the same space.
    There's some real sense to that. Marvel's use of real places seemed edgy back in the day, but trying to cast Manhattan as the kind of crime-infested hell-hole it was in 1970 is now problematic. You don't have to worry about what Star City or Metropolis are in real life when fitting a story to them.

  7. #997
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It can sometimes get a bit too confusing when there are both real cities and fictional cities occupying the same space.
    I like that they use a mix. I just think it is a bit unlikely that with an endless supply of cities out there, most of the heroes have coalesced into one area. Kind of like Marvel with New York. That's fine for when you want them to team up, but I think their solos should have them being the knight their hometown needs, maybe has always needed.

  8. #998
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    I'd like to see all the heroes get their own city to protect. It's nice that Batman has inspired so many, but the number of heroes in Gotham does not need to be equal to the number of rogues.
    I'd rather non Bat Gotham heroes actually DO something.

  9. #999
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    If every DC city was a fictional city, I would be fine with that. It can sometimes get a bit too confusing when there are both real cities and fictional cities occupying the same space.
    Are they filling the same space?
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  10. #1000
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    In Ralph and Sue Dibny's DETECTIVE run, in the 1960s, they travelled all over the United States and I don't recall them ever going to a real city (outside of the USA, yes, but not in the States). Of course, they visited Coast City, Central City, Gotham City and Ivy Town, but they also went to many other cities and towns that I don't think were used in other comics. Right there you have a lot of places that could serve as other locations.

    A lot of the classic fictional cities seemed to take the place of real cities in the DC stories. Gotham and Metropolis both took the place of New York. I think Coast City was San Diego (or possibly another California town). There was Evergreen City that was either Portland, Oregon or Seattle, Washington. Ivy Town was a university town for one of the Ivy League schools--so I'll say it was Princeton, since in the real world Einstein was at Princeton and it would make sense that Ray Palmer's Ivy University was the equivalent of Princeton University. Linda Danvers attended Stanhope College, which I always thought was Stanford (but whether Linda's Stanhope was on the east coast or the west coast is a bit of a puzzle).

    In the 1970s Calculator story that ran in DETECTIVE, writer Bob Rozakis meant for the series to track a path across the United States, as the Calculator went from one super-hero's fictional city to the next. However, from what I understand, there was an error on Bob's map, so it actually didn't line up quite as he intended. Not that anyone else would know.

  11. #1001
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Are they filling the same space?
    Sometimes. I've heard it said that Metropolis and Gotham are pretty much New York and New Jersey.... Though I've also heard it said that Gotham was New York and Bludhaven was Jersey...

    Which is fine on the surface, but DC earth already has an actual New York and Jersey too so that east coast metropolis is a bit crowded there...

  12. #1002
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Sometimes. I've heard it said that Metropolis and Gotham are pretty much New York and New Jersey.... Though I've also heard it said that Gotham was New York and Bludhaven was Jersey...

    Which is fine on the surface, but DC earth already has an actual New York and Jersey too so that east coast metropolis is a bit crowded there...
    I've always heard that Gotham and Bludhaven are just cities in New Jersey and New York respectively.
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  13. #1003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    I never cared much for Black Panther because I'm usually not into social commentary stories with Black characters in a superhero setting, and I'm not terribly interested in Africa, to tell you the truth. Well, at least not sub-Saharan Africa. I can't think of anything from the culture, history, or mythology that really hooked me, except for maybe the British fighting Zulus, but...that's kind of more from the British perspective, so... :T

    I'm not interested in Luke Cage for similar reasons. I'm not all that into his Black neighborhood story or prison background. Maybe this stuff doesn't appeal to me because a lot of it is somehow rooted in something negative. There is at least a shadow of it. In Black Panther, as was mentioned, there is white supremacy and colonialism. In Luke Cage, there is the ghetto and black people's struggles with the American justice system. Black Lightning isn't a whole lot different. Milestone books typically weren't any better, from my point of view, and I thought this was disappointing because they were done largely by black creators. With the white guys, I understood the situation better. They didn't often have much use for black characters unless they were going to make a point about their blackness, but Milestone was treading pretty much the same ground, even though Milestone's fans love to deny this from my experience. For example, the first issue of Hardware, which was a debut title for them, is literally titled "Angry Black Man", and the first superhero team they had is a street gang.

    I simply don't find this type of stuff to be escapism or very appealing. It's often based in sad aspects of reality. I don't mean to say that it shouldn't have been made, or the stories have no merit, or that good stories can't be told in that setting. I guess for some people, their escapism is seeing a black man turn all that oppression and whatnot on its head. For me...I guess I would rather see a cool portal fantasy or something. Like... you would NEVER see a black lead in something like a Final Fantasy game. Instead, you would see black characters in...Blood Syndicate, Black Lightning, Luke Cage, et al. If it's about sports, gangs, crime, prison, slaves, or rap you'll see some black people, but I'm the guy who would have more fun seeing a black lead in a Final Fantasy game, which you would NEVER see.

    John Stewart was/is a breath of fresh air, because here was a black superhero who wasn't involved in all of that stuff (well, he was, but not so much in the depiction of him I discovered). I would be a bit disappointed if he did get a film and it was the same old commentary all over again. One of the things I really appreciated about him was you could simply have a good time with him without HISTORY CRASHING THROUGH YOUR VEINS:
    Black Panther wasn't a story about white supremacy, slaves, prison, drugs and ghettoes. It was about a an African prince who fought to protect his country from foreign and domestic enemies. That's as escapist as you can get.

  14. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I've always heard that Gotham and Bludhaven are just cities in New Jersey and New York respectively.
    This is the first time I heard that Gotham was in New York. I've always heard that it was in Delaware or Conneticut. Metropolis is usually associated with New York and Bludhaven with New Jersey.

  15. #1005
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Sometimes. I've heard it said that Metropolis and Gotham are pretty much New York and New Jersey.... Though I've also heard it said that Gotham was New York and Bludhaven was Jersey...

    Which is fine on the surface, but DC earth already has an actual New York and Jersey too so that east coast metropolis is a bit crowded there...
    I always used to think that Metropolis was in Illinois for the longest time but even after that it's pretty much in New York state. Does it really matter if Metropolis is in New York State? There can be multiple big cities in a state.

    I always liked in the JLA/Avengers crossover that it's explained that the DC Earth is physically bigger than the Marvel one and that's why there are more made up cities on the DC earth.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

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