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  1. #4351
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's a weird market these days. Even Arrow and Aquaman can't carry books anymore.

    Seems like DC only gives us the League and Squad for regular team books, with a semi-regular attempt at some version of the Titans, and the occasional attempt at some other random group. They can't get JSA off the ground at all, Young Justice ended after what, barely a year? Legion didn't even last that long I don't think? No word on any Birds of Prey title.

    Hard to put characters like that in other team books when there are no other team books. But there's still options. Backups. Supporting cast roles in solo titles. The character/s could join one of those doomed-to-be-short-lived team titles. Point being, as long as a character doesn't join the League and then go back to a "lesser" team, any shift or movement won't be seen as a demotion.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #4352
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    This kinda makes me wish we got more non Titans/JL team titles but they don't seem to last very long.
    Does SHOWCASE still exist? I thought that quarterly was a good place to allow for just such exploration

  3. #4353
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Does SHOWCASE still exist? I thought that quarterly was a good place to allow for just such exploration
    Only on the Bat side as Urban Legends and they feature non Bat fam characters like Constantine and Grifter occasionally

  4. #4354
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    True. I've seen plenty of people who complained about Cyborg leaving the Titans for the League complain about Vic being "demoted" back to the Titans.

    But this is only a problem if the character joins the League. I don't think people would have the same problem if, for example, Raven joined the Birds of Prey for a time. If she ever returned to the Titans brand, it'd be seen as a lateral movement rather than a demotion.
    Me, as a kid growing up in the 90s, my first time seeing Cyborg.... was the Superfriends cartoon, where he was a (junior) member of the (equivalent to) Justice League. So me seeing him as a Titan... feels like he's the adult supervision on the team.

  5. #4355
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    The blue camouflage suit from the 1986 Aquaman miniseries is the best Aquaman costume ever wore and nothing comes remotely close.

    Powergirl's Atlantis origins was a better take on the character than the refugee from Earth 2. As much as I enjoy a good Elseworld, I hate stories centered around the multiverse, I think most of them fall into the trap of becoming shaggy dog stories, and having characters from alternate Earths resettle in the main universe just makes the universe more overly complicated.

    Rick Veitch's brief Swamp Thing run was as good as Alan Moore's

    I love the medium of comics, but I'm the rare fan who doesn't care in the slightest about comic book movies or shows, which never seem to capture the richness of the Marvel or DC Universe.

    The Bwa-ha-ha era of the Justice League wasn't really all that funny, what attracted me to those comics was a genuine investment in the characters.

    Most of the New 52 redesigns looked actually pretty great when drawn by Image style artists like Jim Lee, Kenneth Rocafort, and Brett Booth. When drawn by artists that don't adhere to that particular style, they were an eye sore. The genius of the classic designs of characters like Batman, Green Lantern, Superman, and Wonder Woman is that costumes are so universal and simple that they look good when drawn by virtually any artist.

    John Constantine and Swamp Thing are only compelling when they're relegated to they're own little corner outside the DC Universe.
    Last edited by Timothy Hunter; 05-15-2022 at 09:36 AM.

  6. #4356
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    Dan Didio was the best thing to ever happen to DC and ya'll didn't deserve him. SO wish he was back.

    Jim Lee and his narcissistic greed was the worst thing to happen to DC. And Tom King is maybe the worst "talent" they've ever had.

  7. #4357
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    Quote Originally Posted by daredevil1 View Post
    Dan Didio was the best thing to ever happen to DC and ya'll didn't deserve him. SO wish he was back.

    Jim Lee and his narcissistic greed was the worst thing to happen to DC. And Tom King is maybe the worst "talent" they've ever had.
    You do know that Didio signed off (and in some cases, demanded) just about everything Lee and King did that you hate, right?

  8. #4358
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    1 Batman should not be an omnipotent man who has plans to destroy his friends. I didn’t like him being played as crazy, all powerful Batman. He stopped being interesting to me after the Doug Moench era.

    2 I wish all the characters (within their own titles) mostly stayed in their ‘own universe’. Some character cross overs are fine but should be limited. And in team books, characters should be consistent with their own characters but almost treat those books as within their own continuity.

    3. Agree with an earlier post, Rucka’s WW runs have been BORING.

  9. #4359
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    A huge problem with Batman's plans to defeat his friends could simply be fixed by saying he has plans to defeat his enemies. He doesn't have an anti-Superman plan, he has an anti-Zod plan. He doesn't have a plan for defeating Green Lantern, he has a plan for defeating Sinestro.

    Then if you need to use the plan to defeat Superman, you specifically say that he's using a plan he created to defeat Zod.

  10. #4360
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    A huge problem with Batman's plans to defeat his friends could simply be fixed by saying he has plans to defeat his enemies. He doesn't have an anti-Superman plan, he has an anti-Zod plan. He doesn't have a plan for defeating Green Lantern, he has a plan for defeating Sinestro.

    Then if you need to use the plan to defeat Superman, you specifically say that he's using a plan he created to defeat Zod.
    The infamous one from that one story... well, it was infamous because it wouldn't have worked on Zod! Superman was "incapacitated" because he was unable to act without emitting solar energy. So he had to hold still to avoid burning things near him. Dru-Zod would probably go into a murderous rage and begin kicking ass if you did that to him.

    But Batman has plans that are far more generic in dealing with Kryptonians.

  11. #4361
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    The infamous one from that one story... well, it was infamous because it wouldn't have worked on Zod! Superman was "incapacitated" because he was unable to act without emitting solar energy. So he had to hold still to avoid burning things near him. Dru-Zod would probably go into a murderous rage and begin kicking ass if you did that to him.
    Which really makes it a stupid plan if that's what you've come up with to stop Superman if he ever goes evil.

    Of course it's not as bad as his plan to stop Green Lantern relying on him sneaking up on GL while he's asleep.

    Still, I stand by my point. Call it his Anti-Zod plan. Call it a modified anti-Zod plan or something he came up with while researching ways to stop Zod. Just don't make it sound like he sits around in his basement plotting ways to kill his friends and allies.

  12. #4362
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    I hate to say this, but Mark Waid's run on JLA was a sizable step down from Morrison. First you had the unnecessarily mean spirited Tower of Babel arc that served as one of the biggest character assassinations Batman has ever experienced in any medium.

    The following story lines where nowhere near as offensive, but all the while seemed like they were treading water, especially in comparison to Morrison's run, where new concepts, locations, and characters were introduced every couple of issues. Mark Waid seemed to be doing his best Warren Ellis impression, telling somewhat generic Blockbuster stories in service to Bryan Hitch's artwork. Admittedly, Hitch's artwork looks as great as it did on The Authority and Ultimates, but when Hitch was behind schedule and left schedule it seemed to me like there was nothing going for the book. The reason why the first Authority series was such a success was because of Bryan Hitch's extraordinary ability to make things seem larger than life. If almost any other artist had the task of drawing that book, Those initial issues of The Authority would be slightly above average at best.

  13. #4363
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Which really makes it a stupid plan if that's what you've come up with to stop Superman if he ever goes evil.

    Of course it's not as bad as his plan to stop Green Lantern relying on him sneaking up on GL while he's asleep.

    Still, I stand by my point. Call it his Anti-Zod plan. Call it a modified anti-Zod plan or something he came up with while researching ways to stop Zod. Just don't make it sound like he sits around in his basement plotting ways to kill his friends and allies.
    Oh I know. It's weird that in-universe... Batman's anti-K plans are always TERRIBAD compared to his Anti-Superman plans. He's like the only guy in the universe who can't find Gold-K.

  14. #4364
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    I hate to say this, but Mark Waid's run on JLA was a sizable step down from Morrison. First you had the unnecessarily mean spirited Tower of Babel arc that served as one of the biggest character assassinations Batman has ever experienced in any medium.
    Very much agreed on this, it is an overrated run.

  15. #4365

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Does SHOWCASE still exist? I thought that quarterly was a good place to allow for just such exploration
    World's Finest was another good title for that. Superman/Batman as the main features and you also had Hawkman, Green Arrow, Captain Marvel and Zatanna as back up features.

    Quote Originally Posted by bretmaverick2 View Post
    1 Batman should not be an omnipotent man who has plans to destroy his friends. I didn’t like him being played as crazy, all powerful Batman. He stopped being interesting to me after the Doug Moench era.
    I agree. I was re-reading Obisidan Age recently and that's one of the rare version where the Bat God worked for me:

    -Batman has a contingency plan for it the League is killed, it's believable and he trusts Nightwing to do it.

    -Batman recruits Jason Blood who doesn't want to join because of the demon inside him. Batman's recording tells him that he has a plan to keep Etrigan in check which amuses Jason. We never see what the plan actually is and the ambiguity works because the story line itself shows that Jason is not someone who can be easily be contained.

    -After the League travels through the portal Batman is the one who is worse off than the rest of the League because he's human and he doesn't recover as quickly. He is stuck dealing with a high fever while the rest of the League investigates.

    -Batman doing chessmaster thing is counter balanced by the League pulling off ridiculous Godly feats. Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter keeps the earth from hurtling out of orbit, Flash can absorb an entire planets worth of kinetic energy and Kyle can easily do all of it with his ring. Everybody can pull off ridiculous feats. The problem is when you have certain instances of JLU or certain comics in the early to mid 00's and beyond which has the League working with 10% of their power and 1% of their brains while Batman (and any other 'normal' hero) is using 100% of their abilities.

    2 I wish all the characters (within their own titles) mostly stayed in their ‘own universe’. Some character cross overs are fine but should be limited. And in team books, characters should be consistent with their own characters but almost treat those books as within their own continuity.
    Agreed. 100%

    3. Agree with an earlier post, Rucka’s WW runs have been BORING.
    I enjoyed his second run the first time I read it but now I'm now over it. It feels so......safe? "WW is gay but we aren't going to show it". "Hippolyta and Phillipus might be gay but we won't show that either". "Here is a lot of cutesy Diana and Steve romance."

    The current run of WW titles feels like a slightly updated version of the Thomas/Kanigher era with lots of colourful villains and Diana pining for Steve or another dude she fell in love with.

    I still enjoy his first run though.

    Historia is more daring and more spiritually closer to what Perez did. His run is still the GOAT in my mind.

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