Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[TheRay]

There are no narrowly defined, one note characters.

[John Venus]

I don't really care about Power Girl. There was a time when the shoe was on the other foot and I didn't care about Supergirl, but either way despite their differences in personality I think they're largely redundant and DC should only have one per universe.

I kind of agree. I don't have anything against the character, but she's sort of a victim of the shared Clutter Earth torpedoing her premise. We already have a cousin from Krypton for Superman to interact with and they don't even always know what to do with her, let alone an alternate version of her that's older.

I like Power Girl. I think the premise of a grown up Supergirl from another world who has to survive in a familiar but still ultimately different world is an interesting premise. Plus, the fact that she is more associated with the JSA than with the Superman franchise meant that she didn't mentally register as a Superman clone in my mind. Supergirl often runs the problem of having a world that mirrors too closely to that of Clark's. Look at her tv show, they made her a journalist, a supporting of journalists and gave her most of Superman rogues to boot. Karen is at least a CEO, has an entirely different world of supporting and at least some villains she can call her own.

I think the main problem is how all too often she is reduced to a boob joke. I actually don't mind the occasional fanservice moment, a tease or an innuendo, it's part and parcel of the comic book. To me, it only becomes a problem if it starts over shadowing other aspects of the character. Karen's entire ongoing was basically one long running gag about her boobs. It goes to the point where that's all anybody talks about her. "heueheheue hey, did you know? PowerGirl doesn't wear underwear underneath her costume!"

[marhawkman]

My controversial opinion is that I like Zatanna/Constantine ship. *goes to hide*

BUT, I wish that writers would commit to either get them together for some significant time, or to keep them strictly as friends/exes, without this weird thing they have had for a long time when they are not together but act like they still have romantic feelings for each other and might get together at some point in the future. Just stop teasing us.

Enh not the worst Zatanna romance... that would be Batman...

Also... who is better for Constantine?

[lemonpeace]

I do feel like in recent comics their chemistry is pretty high. So would you add her to the Black Lightning family your were talking about in the Africana thread.

right now? no, not really. but if they did my proposed idea? technically. I'd like to try to merge their two niches/mythos by essentially absorbing her into the Freeland ecosystem for when she's stateside; have stories typically bounce between there and Japan. she'd technically be part of the "Lightning Family" but I'd make so the Lightning Family is more like a common term for the general the Freeland sphere, and have the combination of Katana and Black Lightning's influence to flesh it out as an afroshonen niche within the DCU. the whole afroshonen/black-far east fusion aestethic has always been pretty compelling and is only becoming more recognized as an aestethic, almost subgenre unto itself. take Black Lightning and the metas factor, mix it with the esoteric Japanese mythology of Katana, boom, Freeland could be a distinct and uniquely compelling brand that isn't seen in the big 2.

[Gaius]

Enh not the worst Zatanna romance... that would be Batman...

Also... who is better for Constantine?

Man, we're on opposite ends of this. Batman/Zatanna is like the one instance where Bruce being a self-insert for writers to date DC superheroines isn't the worse option considering Zee's other option is Magic British Batman.

[Frontier]

I think the main problem is how all too often she is reduced to a boob joke. I actually don't mind the occasional fanservice moment, a tease or an innuendo, it's part and parcel of the comic book. To me, it only becomes a problem if it starts over shadowing other aspects of the character. Karen's entire ongoing was basically one long running gag about her boobs. It goes to the point where that's all anybody talks about her. "heueheheue hey, did you know? PowerGirl doesn't wear underwear underneath her costume!"

There was a lot of cheesecake in the Conner/Palmiotti Power Girl run but I think it was still pretty on-point about Karen being a powerful, strong, and capable Heroine with a personality beyond her boob window...although they did make fun of it a lot and find excuses to get her naked...

right now? no, not really. but if they did my proposed idea? technically. I'd like to try to merge their two niches/mythos by essentially absorbing her into the Freeland ecosystem for when she's stateside; have stories typically bounce between there and Japan. she'd technically be part of the "Lightning Family" but I'd make so the Lightning Family is more like a common term for the general the Freeland sphere, and have the combination of Katana and Black Lightning's influence to flesh it out as an afroshonen niche within the DCU. the whole afroshonen/black-far east fusion aestethic has always been pretty compelling and is only becoming more recognized as an aestethic, almost subgenre unto itself. take Black Lightning and the metas factor, mix it with the esoteric Japanese mythology of Katana, boom, Freeland could be a distinct and uniquely compelling brand that isn't seen in the big 2.

Personally I wouldn't limit it to Katana I'd just straight make the Outsiders more an extension of Black Lightning's brand.

[king81992]

Enh not the worst Zatanna romance... that would be Batman...

Also... who is better for Constantine?

Constantine is one of those characters who should never be in a relationship.

[seismic-2]

Constantine is one of those characters who should never be in a relationship.

I feel he should constantly be in a string of relationships, all of which end quite badly. That shows John being what John is.

[Catlady in training]

I feel he should constantly be in a string of relationships, all of which end quite badly. That shows John being what John is.

Well, at least Zatanna is an important character on her own, so she has a sort of protection outside of story to not end up in a horrible death or worse. A character that is created as John's supporting character doesn't have that.

[lemonpeace]

There was a lot of cheesecake in the Conner/Palmiotti Power Girl run but I think it was still pretty on-point about Karen being a powerful, strong, and capable Heroine with a personality beyond her boob window...although they did make fun of it a lot and find excuses to get her naked...

Personally I wouldn't limit it to Katana I'd just straight make the Outsiders more an extension of Black Lightning's brand.

100% agree, been championing the same thing for a while but I like the idea of Katana and Black Lightning's having a more holistic union.

[KurtW95]

Giving long running characters offspring is a bad idea and should in not happen in most cases.

[Restingvoice]

There was a lot of cheesecake in the Conner/Palmiotti Power Girl run but I think it was still pretty on-point about Karen being a powerful, strong, and capable Heroine with a personality beyond her boob window...although they did make fun of it a lot and find excuses to get her naked...

Yeah, the cheesecake in Conner Palmiotti books is fun. They're having fun with it, make fun of it, and the characters are also having fun or just treat funny naked people as funny regardless of gender. It doesn't feel like a creep or unbridled horny person is writing and drawing it. (An example for that is Frank Miller making Jim Lee draw Vicki Vale working at home in lingerie and high heels where the tone of the book is dark)

[marhawkman]

Giving long running characters offspring is a bad idea and should in not happen in most cases.

It can make for a good story.... or a really bad story. It's a story arc at minimum.

I still wanna see them do a John and Yrra story arc with that.

[achilles]

I like Power Girl. I think the premise of a grown up Supergirl from another world who has to survive in a familiar but still ultimately different world is an interesting premise. Plus, the fact that she is more associated with the JSA than with the Superman franchise meant that she didn't mentally register as a Superman clone in my mind. Supergirl often runs the problem of having a world that mirrors too closely to that of Clark's. Look at her tv show, they made her a journalist, a supporting of journalists and gave her most of Superman rogues to boot. Karen is at least a CEO, has an entirely different world of supporting and at least some villains she can call her own.

I think the main problem is how all too often she is reduced to a boob joke. I actually don't mind the occasional fanservice moment, a tease or an innuendo, it's part and parcel of the comic book. To me, it only becomes a problem if it starts over shadowing other aspects of the character. Karen's entire ongoing was basically one long running gag about her boobs. It goes to the point where that's all anybody talks about her. "heueheheue hey, did you know? PowerGirl doesn't wear underwear underneath her costume!"

I agree with all this. There are so many possibilities for PG as her classic alternate universe survivor, especially is she's the only one and the rest of the JSA is from the main earth. But those possibilities have never been explored. She's right there waiting for a writer with a great idea for her, (and there are many), AND the clout to make it happen, (along with an editor and artists firmly behind the idea.

[John Venus]

Enh not the worst Zatanna romance... that would be Batman...

Also... who is better for Constantine?

Nope. Her relationship with Constantine is worse.

With Batman, they were childhood friends and trained together. They had good chemistry. She only started liking him after he stayed besides her bedside while she recovered after a Joker attack. She brought up the possibility of a relationship but he turned her down so she moved on and they still remained as friends. It was very maturely handled.

With Constantine, their whole dynamic since the Nu52 is that he lies to her, manipulates her, keeps secrets from her, but she has to keep coming back to him because she can't save the day without him. It's a toxic dynamic yet writers try to play it off as if they were two people who were meant to be. Constantine was also indirectly responsible for her father's death and most writers try to write around it, like Tynion IV trying to establish that Giovanni and Constantine had prior history but imo, it's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It's also forced since they keep trying to turn her into a generic goth girl to make the relationship with Constantine work and taking away her supporting characters, relationships and even personality to try and make this relationship work. They even fridged her in the last JLD movie just to give John manpain. It makes it seem like Zatanna has a bad boy fetish or that she is into toxic relationships and that's not true at all, both in Dini's Everyday Magic and ongoing, she was shown to be emotionally mature when it comes to relationships and will reject any dude who would ask her for something she doesn't want to do.

IMO, John should have a love interest from his own book.

There was a lot of cheesecake in the Conner/Palmiotti Power Girl run but I think it was still pretty on-point about Karen being a powerful, strong, and capable Heroine with a personality beyond her boob window...although they did make fun of it a lot and find excuses to get her naked...

Agree to disagree. It was fun for a while but the gag wore itself out. Now 'Cheesecake Fanservice' is how anybody will depict her as. I want more tonal variety, something closer to the tone of how she was written in the JSA ongoing at the time. A PG ongoing with the same tone as the current Becky Cloonan/Michael Conrad WW ongoing would be a dream come true.

Well, at least Zatanna is an important character on her own, so she has a sort of protection outside of story to not end up in a horrible death or worse. A character that is created as John's supporting character doesn't have that.

She was killed off in the JLD: Apocalypse movie to give John angst.

Zatanna was around for 20 years before Constantine showed up. I rather writers develop her as a solo character and bring back and modernize her supporting characters, villains and modernize/retell some of her classic stories rather than make her a subset of another character's world.

I agree with all this. There are so many possibilities for PG as her classic alternate universe survivor, especially is she's the only one and the rest of the JSA is from the main earth. But those possibilities have never been explored. She's right there waiting for a writer with a great idea for her, (and there are many), AND the clout to make it happen, (along with an editor and artists firmly behind the idea.

Sadly, it's even harder to get the character back on track since all of her development was Pre-Nu52 and they wiped all of that away.

I guess she could serve as a mentor to people coping with the events of Death Metal since every character is now kind of aware that their history has been messed with?