Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[sifighter]

I think Dick may technically be the first to choose to be "Robin" . . .

Possibly but I think more people would point to his choice in becoming Nightwing as a counter to that. He may have been the first Robin but when he got to pick who he was on his own he decided to be Nightwing. So I think people would say Dick choose to be Nightwing whereas Tim choose to be Robin.

[dietrich]

Possibly but I think more people would point to his choice in becoming Nightwing as a counter to that. He may have been the first Robin but when he got to pick who he was on his own he decided to be Nightwing. So I think people would say Dick choose to be Nightwing whereas Tim choose to be Robin.

Dick was the 1st Robin that choose to be Robin. Years later he choose to be Nightwing.

[SiegePerilous02]

Possibly but I think more people would point to his choice in becoming Nightwing as a counter to that. He may have been the first Robin but when he got to pick who he was on his own he decided to be Nightwing. So I think people would say Dick choose to be Nightwing whereas Tim choose to be Robin.

I think the Robin identity was always something he came up with on his own. There was a period in the Silver Age where they established it was an identity that Bruce came up with while he was training as a teen, but I'm not sure how long that stuck around.

Basically, Bruce offered the role of sidekick, Dick agreed and came up with the ID.

[dietrich]

I thought Tim has been continuously published in one form or another in the Batbooks. He didn't just come out as a participant in the Batsidekicks. And there was literally a LEGION of Robins (We Are Robin had EVERYONE be one). Why is it bad that arguably the best and most hardcore one uses the title again? He's the first one who chose to be one, no?

No. Every single Robin chose to be Robin. W. That kid was kidnapped and forced into becoming Robin. Can't recall any other story where Batman does this to any of the main canon Robins. Can you?

Jason didn't just come out as a participant in the Batsidekicks but pretty certain he isn't Robin. he was Robin much like tim was Robin but then he became red hood complete with a series. The same thing happened with tim a few years back. He was replaced. The mantle was passed along and Tim got a new name and a new series.

No the We are Robin kids weren't Robins. At least not according to DC.

Robin wasn't just defined by Dick Grayson. Robin IS Dick Grayson. Robin is nothing but Dick Grayson the character. What were to later become aspects of the Robin persona/identity was just Dick Grayson being himself.

I know Dick Grayson is the most influential [guy put sidekicks on the map and is the only Robin to double sales on batman's ongoing title] the most successful robin to date and

We know he is by far the most popular one but I can think of a number of reasons why it's better that he stay Nightwing.

Plus you seem to have forgotten what the comment I replied to asked.

[sifighter]

I’m not saying you guys are wrong, I’m just saying I think the general consensus is more that Dick choosing to be Nightwing outweighs Dick choosing to be Robin.

[Stanlos]

No. Every single Robin chose to be Robin. W. That kid was kidnapped and forced into becoming Robin. Can't recall any other story where Batman does this to any of the main canon Robins. Can you?

Jason didn't just come out as a participant in the Batsidekicks but pretty certain he isn't Robin. he was Robin much like tim was Robin but then he became red hood complete with a series. The same thing happened with tim a few years back. He was replaced. The mantle was passed along and Tim got a new name and a new series.

No the We are Robin kids weren't Robins. At least not according to DC.

Robin wasn't just defined by Dick Grayson. Robin IS Dick Grayson. Robin is nothing but Dick Grayson the character. What were to later become aspects of the Robin persona/identity was just Dick Grayson being himself.

I know Dick Grayson is the most influential [guy put sidekicks on the map and is the only Robin to double sales on batman's ongoing title] the most successful robin to date and

We know he is by far the most popular one but I can think of a number of reasons why it's better that he stay Nightwing.

Plus you seem to have forgotten what the comment I replied to asked.

Maybe I am misremembering so I will pull some back issues before commenting fully. For now, I recall feeling that Tim was the most intentional of the Robins and his acquisition of the role was through his action. But I could be wrong. I will check and get back to you.

[dietrich]

I’m not saying you guys are wrong, I’m just saying I think the general consensus is more that Dick choosing to be Nightwing outweighs Dick choosing to be Robin.

It doesn't and what general consensus? Why do we need to act like any of Robins was forced into this? Like they didn't make the choice not just before they took on the mantle but every day they choose to put those colours on?

Isn't it good that they all wanted to help?

Dick choosing to be Nightwing doesn't outweigh his choice to become Robin. becoming Robin was the start of his hero journey. It's what kick started his story and the origin of the hero that would grow into Nightwing.

[dietrich]

Maybe I am misremembering so I will pull some back issues before commenting fully. For now, I recall feeling that Tim was the most intentional of the Robins and his acquisition of the role was through his action. But I could be wrong. I will check and get back to you.

fair. They all took actions that lead to them gaining Batman's attention, respect leading to them being taken on.

Dick his trying to seek out Venegence
Jason stealing the wheels off the bat mobile
Tim approaching Dick wanting him to return to batman as robin because he noticed Batman was becoming more brutal. However it was the saving batman's life and the argument that the criminals mustn't know that one of them managed to kill Robin that nailed it.
Damian leaving the LOA in an attempt to follow the example set by the bats but primarily saving Tim's life in Battle for the Cowl.

Damian and tim were the most pushy. Damian wanting it so badly he was initially ready to kill to get the role which of course got him shipped back to his mother.

Dick and jason their interest was clear and batman was already interested

[MajorHoy]

Possibly but I think more people would point to his choice in becoming Nightwing as a counter to that. He may have been the first Robin but when he got to pick who he was on his own he decided to be Nightwing. So I think people would say Dick choose to be Nightwing whereas Tim choose to be Robin.

So, you're saying that Dick found a way to grow beyond being "Robin" but Tim hasn't been able to move on, even with Damian now being "Robin"?

[sifighter]

So, you're saying that Dick found a way to grow beyond being "Robin" but Tim hasn't been able to move on, even with Damian now being "Robin"?

Kind of yeah. Tim really hasn’t had his big, “graduation day” if you will. Even when he did do a name change beyond Robin it was Red Robin which feels like a lateral move. Bendis tried to make Drake work but it didn’t stick.

Tim just doesn’t quite have that element of a separate identity that exists outside of being Robin. Dick has Nightwing, Barbara Oracle, Jason Red Hood. All identities that can exist separately from the Bat-family, but Tim doesn’t really have that. Maybe it’s because each time hasn’t been a big defining moment of him growing up into his own role and more Tim having to get out of Damian’s way as he takes the role/an attempt to make a change for the sake of someone else.

[MajorHoy]

Kind of yeah. Tim really hasn't had his big, “graduation day” if you will. Even when he did do a name change beyond Robin it was Red Robin which feels like a lateral move. Bendis tried to make Drake work but it didn’t stick.

Tim just doesn’t quite have that element of a separate identity that exists outside of being Robin. Dick has Nightwing, Barbara Oracle, Jason Red Hood. All identities that can exist separately from the Bat-family, but Tim doesn’t really have that.

So, Tim is a loser who's going to live in Bruce's basement forever, never actually leaving home to go out on his own?

[sifighter]

So, Tim is a loser who's going to live in Bruce's basement forever, never actually leaving home to go out on his own?

No, more of the kid who goes to college and is trying to figure himself out as family life changes and figuring out his future. Which fits because he is college age now I believe.

[Ascended]

Maybe I am misremembering so I will pull some back issues before commenting fully. For now, I recall feeling that Tim was the most intentional of the Robins and his acquisition of the role was through his action. But I could be wrong. I will check and get back to you.

No, you're right.

Dick was taken in by Bruce, then offered a chance to train and bring his parents' killer to justice. Dick, I believe, came up with the "Robin" moniker but it's Bruce who made the offer to become a sidekick.

Jason was also offered the role after impressing Bruce.

Tim figured out who Batman was, who his allies were, and realized that Jason's death was pushing Bruce into a downward spiral. Tim went looking for Bruce to offer his services as a new Robin. Tim's the guy who made it happen and has agency in the story.

So yeah Tim's the most intentional Robin. Before Damian anyway, who essentially came looking to claim his "birthright."

[MajorHoy]

. . . Tim figured out who Batman was, who his allies were, and realized that Jason's death was pushing Bruce into a downward spiral. Tim went looking for Bruce to offer his services as a new Robin. Tim's the guy who made it happen and has agency in the story. . .

Tim didn't start out offering his services as a new Robin to Bruce (unless that was a later retcon).
Tim tried to get Dick to go back to being Robin to work with Bruce again, but Dick wouldn't do that. Tim's becoming Robin was a last resort strategy that wasn't originally planned for by Tim.

[Aahz]

Kind of yeah. Tim really hasn’t had his big, “graduation day” if you will. Even when he did do a name change beyond Robin it was Red Robin which feels like a lateral move. Bendis tried to make Drake work but it didn’t stick.

Tim just doesn’t quite have that element of a separate identity that exists outside of being Robin. Dick has Nightwing, Barbara Oracle, Jason Red Hood. All identities that can exist separately from the Bat-family, but Tim doesn’t really have that. Maybe it’s because each time hasn’t been a big defining moment of him growing up into his own role and more Tim having to get out of Damian’s way as he takes the role/an attempt to make a change for the sake of someone else.

Dick didn't really had a defining moment, and had also to give up the mantle so that Batman could have a Robin again.

But the differnce is that Dick was older when it happened, so moving out of his kid identity to take up an adult one felt naturally, and the writers put imo some work in to sell that change.

Tim was and is still to young enough to be Robin. His transition out of the role was little bit like Dick had to change to Nightwing in the mid 60s before finishing high school.

And part of why Jason works is also that he is usually treated, written and drawn older than he should be.