Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Alpha]

If a character is killed off, then retire that name. No "mantles", no "legacies". Their legacy dies with them (until they're brought back).

Lmao. Okay

[Robanker]

If a character is killed off, then retire that name. No "mantles", no "legacies". Their legacy dies with them (until they're brought back).

Good luck getting any IP holder to agree with that.

[DrNewGod]

If a character is killed off, then retire that name. No "mantles", no "legacies". Their legacy dies with them (until they're brought back).

As others have said, not terribly likely. However, I would like DC to put some IP on ice for a while. Even if only for 5-10 years after killing off a character, and then recycling the name with somebody totally new.

If they were ever to give the JSA an E2 of their own again, I'd say they should do that with most of the non-National/non-All-American properties, and recycle those names for the future of superheroes. But that ain't happenin' either.

[TheRay]

I mean...the title of the thread is controversial opinions. Not IP holder opinions. Unless the title was changed at some point and I missed it.

[Tzigone]

If a character is killed off, then retire that name. No "mantles", no "legacies". Their legacy dies with them (until they're brought back).

I agree with you. I mean, it won't happen for business reasons, but for me, generally speaking, a mantle belongs to a specific individual character. The one who came up with the name and chose to use it to be a hero (exceptions apply for Green Lantern as corps member and Flash, Atom, etc. because they were original in-universe, though not IRL back before the JSA got put on their earth). I also find it insulting to the younger characters in-universe, in that it implies they could never make their "own names" as famous and respected and great as those former heroes did and the best they can hope for is to chosen to carry on the legacy of someone more important.

[TheRay]

Even the GL Corps members have their own identities behind just "GL". Flash and Atom are a bit more dicey, but they too have a bit more to them.

But yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to say. Giving new characters somebody else's name is lazy.

[Tzigone]

Even the GL Corps members have their own identities behind just "GL". Flash and Atom are a bit more dicey, but they too have a bit more to them.

But yeah that's exactly what I'm trying to say. Giving new characters somebody else's name is lazy.

I think it's done because it's just so hard to launch actual new characters without an IP behind them and establish them as just as important as the old gang. Still would appreciate the effort.

Also, while it certainly helps from a sales perspective, it can alienate old fans, as it often means their character is killed off (or turned evil these days) or sidelined for the newbie. While I definitely respect courting a new fanbase, I really don't think that's the way to go about it. And then we end up with different segments of the fandom fighting it out over which one most deserves the mantle or is best at it (see GLs and Robins) or which one should then inherit the really important title (see Superboy). I don't like fandom infighting. Worse still, when the professionals get in on it and start putting down others who held the same title to make the one they are writing look better. If they all had their own codenames, and weren't "competing" for the same spot, I think it'd work better.

[Forlorn]

Hello, new here and looking to jump right into the frying pan... Ya'll have probably heard most of these, and they are very Batman centric, I'm sorry to say.

-The Bat Family is too big. I'm not saying anyone needs to be killed or anything, but something has to give as writers keep adding characters they want into the family. I'd personally say one Robin has to go (why couldn't Jason stay a villain, or at least his own hero?) and one other character... probably one of the ladies, but since we only have 3 consistent ones it seems a bit unfair to cut their numbers below the Robins. I'd even go as far as to say keep Dick, Jason is a Villian/seperate from the Bat Family as a hero, get rid of Tim, keep Damien. While Tim has had a lot going on during Tynion's stuff, I don't really see a place for him since we have Damien.

-Justice League (the main one, not any of the other JL*blank* titles) should be focused as an event comic and nothing more. If they want to do it continually, it should be lower level characters getting shown off when big events aren't happening. There's some of that, but I'd like to see more if its going to stay an ongoing.

-The Batfamily should get a graphic novel series or somesuch making official, not to be changed origins for all the characters. Take the best elements of the various stories, or just pick various ones and reprint them in this series. This could even include some of the major events, such as No Mans Land or Knightfall or Killing Joke, just re-worked for length, modern sensibilities, and in Killing Jokes case, fitting it better into continuity.

-Related to the last one, Knightfall is way to damn long, and Batman need like a 5 year break from any year long events or even year long stories. Give me shorter, BTAS styled stories to keep things mellow for a bit, or give me a period where we fill in gaps for post crisis stuff- we don't have much Dick as Robin post crisis, lets see that for example, or Babs as Batgirl before Killing Joke.

-Poison Ivy should be a character that fits on the bad side. She can still be going out with Harley, and doing all that fun stuff, but out of the big name Batman bad ladies, she is the only that hasn't fully become a hero/anti-hero yet, so can people like me please keep her?

-Powergirl would be more interesting if she weren't in any way related to Superman. Give me a Prime Earth Powergirl that's a standalone character.

-Not a hope or anything, but I prefer Superman before he became a superdad. Something about it just rubs me the wrong way, especially how parts of it ended up being handled...

-Babs being sort of half way between Dick and Batman age wise is the best option.

-Probably the biggest one to annoy people, but there's too many DC characters overall. Either syphon some off to their own universe (like Milestone). And if a character hasn't been used for over 20 years, its probably better to just leave them out.

-Huge irony saying this as a Batman fan, but there's way too many legacies that are essentially current super hero... but YOUNGER! Its a bit of a waste.

-I don't like Green Arrow at all. I think most of his supporting cast is wasted on him.

[DrNewGod]

...Justice League (the main one, not any of the other JL*blank* titles) should be focused as an event comic and nothing more. If they want to do it continually, it should be lower level characters getting shown off when big events aren't happening. There's some of that, but I'd like to see more if its going to stay an ongoing...

From the mid-1960s through the mid-1980s, the JL was very much like that. Huge stories bookending smaller stories that only featured a portion of the cast.

[Alpha]

-Probably the biggest one to annoy people, but there's too many DC characters overall. Either syphon some off to their own universe (like Milestone). And if a character hasn't been used for over 20 years, its probably better to just leave them out.

Hell no. It's great when a writer brings back an underappreciated character from the past and revitalizes them. Look at what Tom King did with Kiteman.

[phantom1592]

I agree with you. I mean, it won't happen for business reasons, but for me, generally speaking, a mantle belongs to a specific individual character. The one who came up with the name and chose to use it to be a hero (exceptions apply for Green Lantern as corps member and Flash, Atom, etc. because they were original in-universe, though not IRL back before the JSA got put on their earth). I also find it insulting to the younger characters in-universe, in that it implies they could never make their "own names" as famous and respected and great as those former heroes did and the best they can hope for is to chosen to carry on the legacy of someone more important.

Yep. In-universe, Legacies just don't make any sense. You don't see that in real life... Babe Ruth was one of the greatest Baseball players ever... when he retired nobody else was 'the New Babe'.... They were their own thing.

Frankly it's just confusing in-universe. Wally wanted to 'honor' Barry... but all he did was replace him. Just look at the fanbase when Barry came back. He wasn't 'honored'... he was 'replaced', and that was the opposite of what Wally was trying to do.

Spider-man is a big one. Spider-man has a LOT of enemies. Spider-man's name gets drug through the mud ALLLLL the time. Why would ANYONE want to be BE spider-man?? When random villain breaks out of jail vowing to get revenge on Flash or Spider-man... why would anyone want to be mistaken for the guy they hate? Especially the way Spidey changes costumes so much lately... who knows WHO's under that mask? Is Morbius or Dr. Octopus supposed to sit down and talk with their minions about WHICH guy calling himself spider-man he wants to kill? Which costume, what his height is, who his families are... or is Miles' family getting blown up because the Big Wheel can't tell his Spider-men apart?

Make an identity... and keep it. If you die, get a statue... but the name is still retired.

On a similar note... The costume is the brand identity. The uniform. It shouldn't be changed unless for a REALLY good reason. Like Batman vs. Predator while fighting injured... he got some sweet armor. But 90% of the time... you do not WANT to confuse your enemies or the innocents about who you actually are. You spend too much time building that rep to start over.

[skyvolt2000]

Hell no. It's great when a writer brings back an underappreciated character from the past and revitalizes them. Look at what Tom King did with Kiteman.

Probably the biggest one to annoy people, but there's too many DC characters overall. Either syphon some off to their own universe (like Milestone). And if a character hasn't been used for over 20 years, its probably better to just leave them out.

I will give you all better examples-

Squirrel Girl

Did not appear for a decade after her first appearance in 1991 aside from a trading card and one cameo.
She is New York Times Best seller and has 50 solo issues.
She has more solo issues than Storm and Cyborg. Two of the most COMMONLY seen characters at the Big 2.

Rocket Raccoon only had 10 appearances in his first 30 years of being around. Now he is a household name.

Lets not forget The New Warriors. One new guys and others collecting dust.

Also for some characters there are REASONS for not appearing.


Like PAYING the creators-see Ultraverse.

Or paying MORE to the creators-see Milestone. DC had to PAY Milestone even if they NEVER used them or risk Milestone going elsewhere.

Or trying to NOT bring up creators-there is a reason a lot of 90s Justice League, Green Lantern Mosaic & Justice League 90s spinoffs are NOT in trades.

[Forlorn]

Hell no. It's great when a writer brings back an underappreciated character from the past and revitalizes them. Look at what Tom King did with Kiteman.

I should have specified- I specifically mean this for heroes and civilian characters. I don't mind villians (or whatever we would call Kite Man) coming back. I also don't mind if a character comes back for a storyline or some such. I guess I'm mostly focused on hero characters that can never get a consistent team association, always have poor sales solo, or just don't catch on with writers/fans. Its hard to think of examples for me though. For example, if I was to make a list of characters, it'd probably look pretty similar to the one DC has on their site.

From the mid-1960s through the mid-1980s, the JL was very much like that. Huge stories bookending smaller stories that only featured a portion of the cast.

Ahh, yeah, that's pretty much it. I guess my thought process is that those big events shouldn't affect the solo stories, so they should be roped off in their own area.

I will give you all better examples-

Squirrel Girl

Did not appear for a decade after her first appearance in 1991 aside from a trading card and one cameo.
She is New York Times Best seller and has 50 solo issues.
She has more solo issues than Storm and Cyborg. Two of the most COMMONLY seen characters at the Big 2.

Rocket Raccoon only had 10 appearances in his first 30 years of being around. Now he is a household name.

Lets not forget The New Warriors. One new guys and others collecting dust.

Also for some characters there are REASONS for not appearing.


Like PAYING the creators-see Ultraverse.

Or paying MORE to the creators-see Milestone. DC had to PAY Milestone even if they NEVER used them or risk Milestone going elsewhere.

Or trying to NOT bring up creators-there is a reason a lot of 90s Justice League, Green Lantern Mosaic & Justice League 90s spinoffs are NOT in trades.

I know little about Marvel, so no real comments there. But I do know that as someone still relatively new to comic books and who is trying to sell comic books through my job at a LCS, the number of characters really throw people off.

[Thezmage]

Yep. In-universe, Legacies just don't make any sense. You don't see that in real life... Babe Ruth was one of the greatest Baseball players ever... when he retired nobody else was 'the New Babe'.... They were their own thing.

George Selkirk was the new number 3 (and outfielder) for the Yankees. It's roughly analogous with Wally becoming the Flash. His number wasn't retired until 1948

[Tzigone]

Nevermind; not important.