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  1. #4381
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I feel like this stuff is also why Bruce is pushed to "billionaire" status in terms of wealth, when the character (especially in this day and age) would probably be better served as "just" being a millionaire.

    He has to be wealthy just for the basics of the character to work, but making him one of the richest people on the entire planet so he can afford to bust out mecha suits, have 100s of Batmobiles at the ready and fund the entire JL operation (when he doesn't need to- Superman alone can access all the stuff they need before we start factoring in stuff like Amazonian and Atlantean connections) is serious overkill. He'd work just as well as one of the wealthier figures in Gotham, but doesn't even have to be the wealthiest.
    Well, yeah, Bruce has stiff competition when it comes to being a financier in the JL. But his "moderately more ethical version of Lex Luthor" shtick works reasonably well IMO.

    Yes I know, some people would prefer the super-martial artist version or "world's greatest detective" as focus, but... those are harder to use in a team book.

  2. #4382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Only if the writer is on auto-pilot.

    Actually, even then that's not an excuse. People love ninjas. Batman's a ninja. Have him sneak down a hallway full of bad guys without being seen or something. If all the colorful, loud heroes are in a fight and you can't think of something deviously fun for Bruce to be doing while everyone is distracted then you shouldn't be writing Bruce.
    Yup. That kind of thing is cool. The big colorful splashy characters are fighting the army of aliens or robots or whatever, and Batman's nowhere to be seen, and then the fight turns as it is discovered that Batman is in the bad-guy's headquarters already and shutting down his remote army control or teleportals or whatever at the source, and the other Leaguers were basically a distraction (and yes, doing the very real job of keeping the army of parademons or whatever from killing people and taking over the world, so they weren't *just* a distraction!).

    Plus it's fun to see the big bad watching the battle between the rest of the League and their army of minions and stop and say, "Wait. Where's Batman?"

    "Behind you."

  3. #4383
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    It really is just a matter of figuring out what each character does well, and giving them a badass feat/moment to match. I figure, with the League, half the time you probably gotta write backwards; think of a thing for the hero to do, and then find a reason for them to do it. You gotta say "Okay, I got Aquaman, and I wanna use Kanjar Ro as a villain. What cool thing can Aquaman do here?" so maybe Ro has an army and Arthur is gonna lead the Atlantean military against them on a global battle. Or maybe Arthur's gonna get Ro into some water and kick his ass like Conan the Mermaid Barbarian. Hell you don't even need to know who the villain is; find the cool thing and then grab a bad guy that fits.

    Maybe you wanna have Barry do some super speed science of some kind. Well, you need some kinda science-y threat. I'll check the latest articles on science/technology, see what inspires me. Pretty sure I saw a headline today about a fossil having bacteria in it that's been extinct for centuries, and scientists think they can revive it (I didn't read the article). Okay, there's my cool thing; the League is gonna fight some kind of super virus that's gonna do....stuff....and Barry's gonna science it to death. No idea what the plot is beyond that, but as I decide what the other Leaguers are doing, the blanks will get filled in and everyone is gonna end up having a moment to shine somewhere.

    And if it turns out that a member of the League doesn't have a cool thing that fits? Leave them out of the issue/arc. Not every member *needs* to be a major player in *every* story after all.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  4. #4384
    Hawkman is underrated Falcon16's Avatar
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    Colossal Boy's Silver Age design is better than his current one
    Scotty Fischer's New 52 design is better than his old one
    Batman & Robin is a great movie and it is not meant to be taken seriously
    Cyborg should like having cybernetics at first
    Black Manta's suit being sealed to a microscopic level is DUMB. He should've been killed by Atomica going inside him (and WE SEE INSIDE)
    Cyborg x Atom (both Ray and Ryan) is ADORABLE
    Corey Burton is the only good Brainiac
    Green Arrow sucks; Hawkeye is better
    We need a continuity where Harvey Dent does not become Two-Face
    STAS apologist, New 52 apologist, writer of several DC fan projects.

  5. #4385
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Yup. That kind of thing is cool. The big colorful splashy characters are fighting the army of aliens or robots or whatever, and Batman's nowhere to be seen, and then the fight turns as it is discovered that Batman is in the bad-guy's headquarters already and shutting down his remote army control or teleportals or whatever at the source, and the other Leaguers were basically a distraction (and yes, doing the very real job of keeping the army of parademons or whatever from killing people and taking over the world, so they weren't *just* a distraction!).

    Plus it's fun to see the big bad watching the battle between the rest of the League and their army of minions and stop and say, "Wait. Where's Batman?"

    "Behind you."
    Yeah, that's a much better way to use Batman than having him get into a slugfest with Kryptonians.

  6. #4386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    And yet everything Batman brings to the table, the other Big 7 are also capable of bringing. Barry is a scientist. J'onn is a detective. Clark's more than a bit of both. He, Arthur, and Diana all have easy access to advanced resources, and Lantern can mimic tons of resources. Diana's a terribly skilled combatant even before we consider her powers. Bruce is better at some of these things than the others, and frees up some of their time by handling it while they're doing more superhuman-y things, but the only place he really shines that the others don't at all is stealth...and to a lesser extent, tactical planning; Diana is a skilled general but isn't as good at strategy as Batman.

    And those things alone make Bruce League worthy, he doesn't have to be the bestest ever at all the best things the best people do bestly.
    The stealth thing isn't even true either. I would argue that Diana, Jonn, and some others are better at strategy as well. But on a Team facing a broad threat none of that matters as Giffen and DeMatteis masterfully showed many times

  7. #4387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    The stealth thing isn't even true either. I would argue that Diana, Jonn, and some others are better at strategy as well. But on a Team facing a broad threat none of that matters as Giffen and DeMatteis masterfully showed many times
    How is the stealth thing not true?

  8. #4388
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    I will argue until the cows come home that the Justice League was absolutely 100% in the right to mind wipe Dr. Light. Changing his personality did bring up a serious ethical dilemma, but I could see both sides of the argument.

    I never had a problem with the mind wiping aspect of Identity Crisis, the two biggest problems for me with that story was Sue Dibny's gratuitous rape and the implausibility of Lorring knowing Tim Drake was Robin.

  9. #4389
    Fantastic Member Edwin30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    I will argue until the cows come home that the Justice League was absolutely 100% in the right to mind wipe Dr. Light. Changing his personality did bring up a serious ethical dilemma, but I could see both sides of the argument.

    I never had a problem with the mind wiping aspect of Identity Crisis, the two biggest problems for me with that story was Sue Dibny's gratuitous rape and the implausibility of Lorring knowing Tim Drake was Robin.
    I agree.
    Most people don't even know that JL including Batman in the first arc of JLA mindwiped 70 white martians into thinking they were human and put them among other humans to live out their lives. They wrote every aspect of their lives from their name to their occupation and got away with it. This was written by Grant Morrison before Identity crisis came out. You can't even say this was retconned because in the same book issues later they discuss Identity Crisis.

    Then we have Faces of evil Prometheus #1 where after taking down Prometheus, Batman and Martian manhunter intentionally turn him into a drooling vegetable so he'd no longer be a threat to JL.

    Compare that to changing Light's personality and you'll find Batman to be the biggest hypocrite ever.
    Last edited by Edwin30; 06-02-2022 at 12:56 PM.

  10. #4390
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin30 View Post
    I agree.
    Most people don't even know that JL including Batman in the first arc of JLA mindwiped 70 white martians into thinking they were human and put them among other humans to live out their lives. They wrote every aspect of their lives from their name to their occupation and got away with it. This was written by Grant Morrison before Identity crisis came out. You can't even say this was retconned because in the same book issues later they discuss Identity Crisis.

    Then we have Faces of evil Prometheus #1 where after taking down Prometheus, Batman and Martian manhunter intentionally turn him into a drooling vegetable so he'd no longer be a threat to JL.

    Compare that to changing Light's personality and you'll find Batman to be the biggest hypocrite ever.
    and now that I know that, I don't want those stories either

  11. #4391
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    and now that I know that, I don't want those stories either
    Well the Martian thing is because Batman's "no-kill" rule only really gets consistently applied to Humans.

  12. #4392
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    Thank goodness for the creators of the Young Justice cartoon series! Especially now with the DCU in an extende stay in a salad blender of **bleep** it is absolutely delicious following characters you know and love and seeing the many callbacks and reimaginings of classic iconic stories!

    I am superexcited for the next season which I suspect will split its time between SANCTUARY or HIC and Superman Batman: Supergirl arc as well as Black Mary/Final Crisis

  13. #4393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    How is the stealth thing not true?
    Because any Flash level Leaguer can do stealth better using speed alone (based PreFlashpoint/Stupid 52 versions). Martian Manhunter has a multitude of ways he can stealth better. GLs have a ring that allows them to stealth better. All of their methods have fewer or no flaws/means of detection.

  14. #4394
    Extraordinary Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Livewire should be one of the fastest beings in DC comics.

    Yeah, there's a lot who are equal or better, but... you should need to be one of the fastest in the universe to actually out-speed her. In DCAU, the only people who actually out-sped her seemingly needed Kryptonian speed do it. Yes, I know she didn't actually go on-on-one with all that many people. But when she did most of them couldn't even touch her.

  15. #4395
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    When fans whine about "Silver Age fans running the asylum and writing to their nostalgia" what they are actually whining about is writers were using nostalgia that does not cater to them. And the disingenuous nature of it shows through when writers appeal to their nostalgia and suddenly nostalgia isn't as bad as they say.

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