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  1. #1006
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    Thematically Metropolis is NY at day and Gotham is NY at night

  2. #1007
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Thematically Metropolis is NY at day and Gotham is NY at night
    I have heard that before, of course. But the thing is, NY has changed a lot over the years - in the last 35 years, the status quo of NY has changed a lot more than the status quo of Metropolis or Gotham, I think. Metropolis and Gotham have changed a lot since the golden age, but not so much since Crisis, I think. But I don't know when that statement was made, though I heard it attributed to Frank Miller.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 08-24-2019 at 07:03 AM.

  3. #1008
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    In early Batman, the city isn't usually identified, but it is called New York at least once that I know, in DETECTIVE COMICS 31. Finally, in Batman 4, it's called Gotham City.

    In early Superman, Joe Shuster says he modelled the skyline after Toronto, but the city isn't usually identified, except in ACTION COMICS 11 where it's called Cleveland--which is where Siegel and Shuster were located and the artists in the Shuster studio were there, too--so they would be influenced by the locations and landmarks in that area. However, in ACTION COMICS 16, the city is finally identified as Metropolis--no doubt after the Fritz Lang movie of the same name.

    But most writers and artists at DC were living in the greater New York area. And like with many other comics characters--since most of the publishers were in New York--most of the locations and landmarks are either actually the exact same as New York's or very close copies. And that's the way it is for decades. It's pretty clear that the writers, working in New York and living in that area, are using their own experiences and knowledge of that city as the basis for what they're writing.

    More recently, depending on who the writer and artists are, some have felt the need to distinguish Gotham and Metropolis from the actual New York--maybe because too many other characters now lived in a city actually called New York--and there's been this effort to retrofit those fictional cities to another place on the U.S. map.

    I shouldn't even be posting this in "controversial opinions" as it's actually what has happened and not an opinion.
    celebrating 50 years of 4 beatles crossing a zebra

  4. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I agree that's reversed from more recent versions. Of course, in the early Detective Comics stories, Batman was actually working in New York, with Gotham coming a smidge later. While I know Gotham and Metropolis are New Jersey and Deleware now, I do still sometimes think of them as sort of alternate New Yorks, just somewhere else geographically. Less so recently, though, when I started trying to figure out the cities, analyzing them in a way that will never work for comic books, just to figure out what wages and rents should be.
    "Gotham" was once one of NY's nicknames.

  5. #1010
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    "Gotham" was once one of NY's nicknames.
    I was aware of that. Well, of an old book that used it, anyway.

  6. #1011
    Spectacular Member Fromper's Avatar
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    It might be time to start a new thread to discuss DC-Earth geography, so this thread can get back to its original purpose.
    Just re-reading my old collection, filling in the occasional gap with back issues, not buying anything new.

    Currently working my way through 1990's Flash, Impulse, and JLA, and occasional other related stuff.

  7. #1012
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Oops, wrong thread.
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 08-24-2019 at 12:53 PM.

  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I'd rather non Bat Gotham heroes actually DO something.
    Do they not?

  9. #1014
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    I have never thought Plastic Man was funny
    SIGNAL/Duke Thomas is the Midnight Sun of Gotham (respect thread)
    John Stewart is my Lantern.
    Naomi was great, pass it on...
    DC: Batman and the Outsiders, Justice League, Teen Titans, Deathstroke, The Flash, Justice League Odyssey, Doomsday Clock
    Marvel: Immortal Hulk, Miles Morales: Spiderman, Black Panther, Ironheart, Cosmic Ghost Rider etc., Venom, Moon Girl, Avengers
    Anticipated titles: Far Sector, Love Army*, The Other History of DC*

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I have never thought Plastic Man was funny
    He wasn't created to be. In Cole's day, he was the one rational dude surrounded by gonzos. Turning him into a gonzo was the same sort of shallow thinking that turned (The Real) Captain Marvel into A Child Inside A God because his original child-friendly environment couldn't be replicated in the Post-Crisis DCU.

  11. #1016
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    Come next reboot, All Things Bat need to leave the DCU for a continuity of their own.

  12. #1017
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    He wasn't created to be. In Cole's day, he was the one rational dude surrounded by gonzos. Turning him into a gonzo was the same sort of shallow thinking that turned Captain Marvel into A Child Inside A God because his original child-friendly environment couldn't be replicated in the Post-Crisis DCU.
    I wouldn't say the Shazam change was shallow thinking, from what I know of his older Captain Marvel era his child inside a god incarnation sounds like a more interesting and distinct take to me.
    SIGNAL/Duke Thomas is the Midnight Sun of Gotham (respect thread)
    John Stewart is my Lantern.
    Naomi was great, pass it on...
    DC: Batman and the Outsiders, Justice League, Teen Titans, Deathstroke, The Flash, Justice League Odyssey, Doomsday Clock
    Marvel: Immortal Hulk, Miles Morales: Spiderman, Black Panther, Ironheart, Cosmic Ghost Rider etc., Venom, Moon Girl, Avengers
    Anticipated titles: Far Sector, Love Army*, The Other History of DC*

  13. #1018
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    I think two different beings/souls/whatever with different maturity levels somewhat inhabiting the same body is a whole lot more fascinating than a kid in a god's body. The former invites more interesting internal conflict and bizarre scenarios. Alan Moore really exploited that type of stuff with Miracleman, not that Captain Marvel would have to be played as serious or traumatic as some of the stuff in that, but it could if a writer wanted.

  14. #1019
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    Batman / Superman # 1, I don't like the fact that Batman and Superman already knew Shazam was Billy Batson. In the story after New 52, the identity should not have been revealed yet. Moreover, they should have a discussion if they find Shazam's true identity is Billy. Because he is still a boy. Not as trained as Robin. This should have been made as a story.

  15. #1020
    Spectacular Member Fromper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robotgarden View Post
    Batman / Superman # 1, I don't like the fact that Batman and Superman already knew Shazam was Billy Batson. In the story after New 52, the identity should not have been revealed yet. Moreover, they should have a discussion if they find Shazam's true identity is Billy. Because he is still a boy. Not as trained as Robin. This should have been made as a story.
    Yeah, I could see that being an interesting conversation to have.

    Rereading my comics from the 90s now, and most of DC's well established characters knew each other's secret ids back then, but hardly anyone knew Captain Marvel was Billy Batson. I thought this dynamic worked, and helped establish Cap as being young and inexperienced, since he was new to the merged DC Universe at the time. Not all superheroes should be best friends and already know each other's secrets.

    My favorite moment that this led to was an issue of Flash with Cap as a guest star. Billy says Shazam to transform, and Flash doesn't know what's going on. He just sees a bolt of lightning about to hit a kid out of the blue, so he grabs Billy and moves him out of the way at superspeed. Needless to say, the lightning followed them, and Billy still transformed in the split second that Flash looked back to check on the main threat, leaving Wally very confused.
    Just re-reading my old collection, filling in the occasional gap with back issues, not buying anything new.

    Currently working my way through 1990's Flash, Impulse, and JLA, and occasional other related stuff.

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