Page 292 of 332 FirstFirst ... 192242282288289290291292293294295296302 ... LastLast
Results 4,366 to 4,380 of 4968
  1. #4366
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    29,974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    World's Finest was another good title for that. Superman/Batman as the main features and you also had Hawkman, Green Arrow, Captain Marvel and Zatanna as back up features.
    But that was back in the late 1970s-early 1980s when it was a "Dollar Comic"; the page count was 52 (48 if you don't count the covers?) for the last issue under that format.



  2. #4367
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    World's Finest was another good title for that. Superman/Batman as the main features and you also had Hawkman, Green Arrow, Captain Marvel and Zatanna as back up features.



    I agree. I was re-reading Obisidan Age recently and that's one of the rare version where the Bat God worked for me:

    -Batman has a contingency plan for it the League is killed, it's believable and he trusts Nightwing to do it.

    -Batman recruits Jason Blood who doesn't want to join because of the demon inside him. Batman's recording tells him that he has a plan to keep Etrigan in check which amuses Jason. We never see what the plan actually is and the ambiguity works because the story line itself shows that Jason is not someone who can be easily be contained.

    -After the League travels through the portal Batman is the one who is worse off than the rest of the League because he's human and he doesn't recover as quickly. He is stuck dealing with a high fever while the rest of the League investigates.

    -Batman doing chessmaster thing is counter balanced by the League pulling off ridiculous Godly feats. Superman, Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter keeps the earth from hurtling out of orbit, Flash can absorb an entire planets worth of kinetic energy and Kyle can easily do all of it with his ring. Everybody can pull off ridiculous feats. The problem is when you have certain instances of JLU or certain comics in the early to mid 00's and beyond which has the League working with 10% of their power and 1% of their brains while Batman (and any other 'normal' hero) is using 100% of their abilities.



    Agreed. 100%



    I enjoyed his second run the first time I read it but now I'm now over it. It feels so......safe? "WW is gay but we aren't going to show it". "Hippolyta and Phillipus might be gay but we won't show that either". "Here is a lot of cutesy Diana and Steve romance."

    The current run of WW titles feels like a slightly updated version of the Thomas/Kanigher era with lots of colourful villains and Diana pining for Steve or another dude she fell in love with.

    I still enjoy his first run though.

    Historia is more daring and more spiritually closer to what Perez did. His run is still the GOAT in my mind.
    In fairness to Ruckas second run, for as much as the Diana/Steve stuff may turn people off, Perez did a bit more to inflict the Diana/Clark ship teasing on us than anything that really came before it. They are also on equal footing on giving us a bland Etta who is just an accessory to Steve, though arguably Perez is worse because he established it first. Or at least heavily reinforced it after the Bronze age.

    I do think his second run deserves more credit for setting up a lot of potentially cool interpersonal dynamics between the female villains that unfortunately have rarely been followed up on. I honestly don't think Steve as a love interest gets in the way of any of that all that much despite being the main love interest again. Another woman (Barbara) still comes across as the deuteragonist in the run over Steve

  3. #4368
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post

    Powergirl's Atlantis origins was a better take on the character than the refugee from Earth 2. As much as I enjoy a good Elseworld, I hate stories centered around the multiverse, I think most of them fall into the trap of becoming shaggy dog stories, and having characters from alternate Earths resettle in the main universe just makes the universe more overly complicated.
    Aha! I’m not the only one who feels this way. Though I admit most of the storylines I like with her are during Earth 2 origin periods, which is a weird hang up I have on that character.

  4. #4369
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    In fairness to Ruckas second run, for as much as the Diana/Steve stuff may turn people off, Perez did a bit more to inflict the Diana/Clark ship teasing on us than anything that really came before it.
    I'm pretty sure Perez did more to argue that Diana and Clark getting together would never work out.

  5. #4370
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    The blue camouflage suit from the 1986 Aquaman miniseries is the best Aquaman costume ever wore and nothing comes remotely close.

    Powergirl's Atlantis origins was a better take on the character than the refugee from Earth 2. As much as I enjoy a good Elseworld, I hate stories centered around the multiverse, I think most of them fall into the trap of becoming shaggy dog stories, and having characters from alternate Earths resettle in the main universe just makes the universe more overly complicated.
    Counterargument: The Earth 2 origin didn't give us the stupidity of Power Girl getting impregnated by her own grandfather.

  6. #4371
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm pretty sure Perez did more to argue that Diana and Clark getting together would never work out.
    Even after their first date where Diana has second thoughts, they still did ship tease them, like in their interaction where she asks for Clark Kent to come to the Feast of Five, and he suggests Lois instead. Intentionally or not, it may have planted the seed for later stuff like their trip to Asgard and general being another romantic rival to Lois when a better alternative could have been just not touching any SM/WW romance period.

    Of course, Rucka also managed to squeeze in some light Diana/Bruce ship teasing at their new canon meeting in Rebirth, and that's a thousand times worse

  7. #4372
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I agree. I was re-reading Obisidan Age recently and that's one of the rare version where the Bat God worked for me
    Morrison is one of the few who makes it work. And really, the only reason the Batgod doesn't work most of the time isn't because of anything involving Bruce, it's because writers dumb everyone else down to lift him up.

    Now, I prefer a grounded Batman who can't pull trillion dollar space stations, ultra rare materials, and warmechs, all out of his ass like it ain't no thing. But I don't dislike the notion of Bruce being, in his own way, just as capable as the other Leaguers and it's certainly easier using him on that team when he does have a few crazy toys at his disposal. I just dislike it when everyone else is made less than they are for his benefit. And I don't get why so many Bat fans have no issue with that; by dumbing down Diana and Barry and Clark and the rest, just so Bruce has something to contribute, the writer is basically saying that Bruce can't hang with these guys when they're at their best, that *he* isn't good enough so everyone else has to lower themselves down to his level so he isn't inadequate. I'd expect Bat fans to be the loudest in decrying this treatment.

    Don't write everyone else as an idiot, give them badass moments that play to their strengths. Everybody looks good. Everybody is happy. It's not hard.
    Last edited by Ascended; 05-16-2022 at 02:44 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #4373
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Now, I prefer a grounded Batman who can't pull trillion dollar space stations, ultra rare materials, and warmechs, all out of his ass like it ain't no thing.
    I feel like this stuff is also why Bruce is pushed to "billionaire" status in terms of wealth, when the character (especially in this day and age) would probably be better served as "just" being a millionaire.

    He has to be wealthy just for the basics of the character to work, but making him one of the richest people on the entire planet so he can afford to bust out mecha suits, have 100s of Batmobiles at the ready and fund the entire JL operation (when he doesn't need to- Superman alone can access all the stuff they need before we start factoring in stuff like Amazonian and Atlantean connections) is serious overkill. He'd work just as well as one of the wealthier figures in Gotham, but doesn't even have to be the wealthiest.

  9. #4374
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I feel like this stuff is also why Bruce is pushed to "billionaire" status in terms of wealth, when the character (especially in this day and age) would probably be better served as "just" being a millionaire.

    He has to be wealthy just for the basics of the character to work, but making him one of the richest people on the entire planet so he can afford to bust out mecha suits, have 100s of Batmobiles at the ready and fund the entire JL operation (when he doesn't need to- Superman alone can access all the stuff they need before we start factoring in stuff like Amazonian and Atlantean connections) is serious overkill. He'd work just as well as one of the wealthier figures in Gotham, but doesn't even have to be the wealthiest.
    I was toying with the idea of a Satellite-era League team that didn't include the Big Seven, and it struck me that Elongated Man would be the team detective, Black Canary would be the team melee specialist, the Hawks would supply the ubertech through their alien connections, Firestorm would be their science-guy, etc. So many of them would end up taking on roles that Batman, *by himself*, covers for the Big Seven.

    It seemed like he'd been expanded over years to be kind of indispensible, and all the rest of the League got downgraded to just collections of powers, since he'd already taken all of the skills and backgrounds and resources niches.

  10. #4375
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    So many of them would end up taking on roles that Batman, *by himself*, covers for the Big Seven.
    And yet everything Batman brings to the table, the other Big 7 are also capable of bringing. Barry is a scientist. J'onn is a detective. Clark's more than a bit of both. He, Arthur, and Diana all have easy access to advanced resources, and Lantern can mimic tons of resources. Diana's a terribly skilled combatant even before we consider her powers. Bruce is better at some of these things than the others, and frees up some of their time by handling it while they're doing more superhuman-y things, but the only place he really shines that the others don't at all is stealth...and to a lesser extent, tactical planning; Diana is a skilled general but isn't as good at strategy as Batman.

    And those things alone make Bruce League worthy, he doesn't have to be the bestest ever at all the best things the best people do bestly.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  11. #4376
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    4,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    And yet everything Batman brings to the table, the other Big 7 are also capable of bringing. Barry is a scientist. J'onn is a detective. Clark's more than a bit of both. He, Arthur, and Diana all have easy access to advanced resources, and Lantern can mimic tons of resources. Diana's a terribly skilled combatant even before we consider her powers. Bruce is better at some of these things than the others, and frees up some of their time by handling it while they're doing more superhuman-y things, but the only place he really shines that the others don't at all is stealth...and to a lesser extent, tactical planning; Diana is a skilled general but isn't as good at strategy as Batman.

    And those things alone make Bruce League worthy, he doesn't have to be the bestest ever at all the best things the best people do bestly.
    But stealth is boring and would cause him to sit out of the big battles if they focused on it.

  12. #4377
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    29,974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I feel like this stuff is also why Bruce is pushed to "billionaire" status in terms of wealth, when the character (especially in this day and age) would probably be better served as "just" being a millionaire.
    Hasn't he been demoted back to being a mere millionaire these days?

  13. #4378
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,547

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    But stealth is boring and would cause him to sit out of the big battles if they focused on it.
    Only if the writer is on auto-pilot.

    Actually, even then that's not an excuse. People love ninjas. Batman's a ninja. Have him sneak down a hallway full of bad guys without being seen or something. If all the colorful, loud heroes are in a fight and you can't think of something deviously fun for Bruce to be doing while everyone is distracted then you shouldn't be writing Bruce.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #4379
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    4,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Only if the writer is on auto-pilot.

    Actually, even then that's not an excuse. People love ninjas. Batman's a ninja. Have him sneak down a hallway full of bad guys without being seen or something. If all the colorful, loud heroes are in a fight and you can't think of something deviously fun for Bruce to be doing while everyone is distracted then you shouldn't be writing Bruce.
    Can’t Flash just do this better cause of how fast he is?

  15. #4380

    Default

    No. Batman being a steathy ninja sneaking down a hallway full of bad guys without being seen, and the Flash being a human-sized projectile trying to run down said hallway so fast you can't see him only for the sonic boom and turbulence in his wake to end up destroying the hallway, probably the building said hallway is in, and any possibility of him being actually "stealthy", are not the same damn thing at all.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •