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  1. #2536
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Oh, I hated that. Basically slotting Kon into Clark's past - Clark's powers, Clark's hometown, Clark's parents. Even a Luthor hanging around. I like him so much better in Hawaii. When he had unique powers and his own supporting cast that really had no connection to Superman. Well, I guess Dubbilex did, but not much. He seems so much more independent from Superman that way (back when he was sort of a cousin), and that's a good thing for me. Don't prefer Kara in journalism or Jon in the Legion because it's similarly making them more Clark to me. I like Clark. I just want them to do their own things (Jon in time when he grew up very slowly, but I didn't get that wish).
    I think during that period of Conner's and where his headspace was at, it made a lot of sense for him. But that's just me.

  2. #2537
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    kinda off topic, nevermind
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-21-2020 at 06:38 PM.

  3. #2538
    Fantastic Member SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Yeah, but I already spent my anger on that, so I moved to a smaller target

    By the way, I forget that Ma and Pa Kent is taking care of Conner. So there ya go. They're Superboy supporting cast. Now can we keep them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Oh, I hated that. Basically slotting Kon into Clark's past - Clark's powers, Clark's hometown, Clark's parents. Even a Luthor hanging around. I like him so much better in Hawaii. When he had unique powers and his own supporting cast that really had no connection to Superman. Well, I guess Dubbilex did, but not much. He seems so much more independent from Superman that way (back when he was sort of a cousin), and that's a good thing for me. Don't prefer Kara in journalism or Jon in the Legion because it's similarly making them more Clark to me. I like Clark. I just want them to do their own things (Jon in time when he grew up very slowly, but I didn't get that wish).

    Definitely did not like that. Honestly don't even rewatch the parts of the DCAU I liked the first time because it's now kind of tainted for me. Maybe I will at some point. I'd probably even enjoy it. But I just can't summon the enthusiasm to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think during that period of Conner's and where his headspace was at, it made a lot of sense for him. But that's just me.

    I'm glad he had his time "becoming" mini Clark, but in needs to be over, amd move on from thst.

    I like thst he is running with the suicide squad in the future state story, I like him dealing with the darker side of the DCU, somewhere Clark doesn't go,but bringing light to the dark through him.

    Controversial opinion here about kon /Conner= is he needs his TTK to be complete,kryptonian and TTK powers, at any power level would work

  4. #2539
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Jon in the Legion because it's similarly making them more Clark to me. I like Clark. I just want them to do their own things (Jon in time when he grew up very slowly, but I didn't get that wish).
    I have come around to jon being in legion.The silverage superboy clark kent and current version of clark kent are'nt the same. That version of the character has been rebooted and erased because its a bit dated. My idea would be to make clark kent superman purely byrne/postcrisis and triangle era. Jon is pretty damn good modern interpretation of the silverage superboy/man, right from tomasi's run. They have been trying to incorporate either silverage or golden superman aspects to byrne superman since late 90s.It just doesn't work.It creates a mess of characterisation. I mean, compare geoff johns secret origins to jon's secret origins. It's a no contest for me. A kid sneaking of on adventures fantastical pals and doing cool stuff that's a modern interpretation of silverage superboy.Instead, the "aw! Shucks!" farmboy is encouraged by his parents to go out and become a vigilante. On top of that, the suit is meant to be dorky now and There is no air of gravitas to the suit in secret origins. Comparing jon's secret origins in lois and clark, superman rebirth, supersons , legion... Etc and geoff johns superman secret origins. Jon is more a modern silverage superman than this version of superman could ever hope to be. Why do i say that? Well, whenever silverage aspects are added it's only a top most layer, skin deep and a coating with postcrisis superman . Silverage superman is the man of tomorrow. That's the emotion he should evoke.A feeling similar to Spielberg movies like et, iron giant, stranger things, fantastic four comics... Etc.Postcrisis byrne superman isn't meant to evoke that feeling.

    Here the suit is respected. Clark and lois don't try to shove jon into being a hero or adventurer or Vigilantism. Jon makes his own choices guided by instinct, situations...etc.He meets fantastic pals and go on adventures with them.while, i am not fond of the space prince nonsense. (A working class guy shouldn't be a king). But, then silverage superman wasn't tied to the working class origins. So, that's forgiven.A space prince having wierd adventures with pals and trying to advance the world into the future.

    Postcrisis superman is best represented in things like byrne, American alien, for all seasons... Etc. A humble lad from the farmlands trying to do good.So, go with that build of on it.

    As for conner, young justice and teen titans tv show both references goldenage social crusader for the little guy who leaps tall buildings in a single bound.Conner is clearly metropolis's boy. He is city guy. He is cool.He has a bit of an edge can be like zorro. He can be the man of action of action comics. He wears the jeans and t-shirt. He has worn the black insignia. A working class guy doing the right thing.(Cough! Cough! my kind of superman)

    Since,clark can't be either of these two guys anymore. It's better conner and jon evoke the feeling of these verisons of the character.My original idea of supermen of three worlds/eras being presented together for audiences today could come true. Everyone could get what they want.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-21-2020 at 08:04 PM.

  5. #2540
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Jumping off the current Superman talk but I just really can't get myself to care about the Legion of Super-Heroes. I usually don't care how "connected" a book feels to the rest of the DC universe but idk, Legion just seems too far removed and into the future in relation to the DC properties I care about for me to really get into it.

    Guess its also I view space as GL stomping grounds and the Legion are kind of also-rans in that category.

  6. #2541
    Fantastic Member SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I have come around to jon being in legion.The silverage superboy clark kent and current version of clark kent are'nt the same. That version of the character has been rebooted and erased because its a bit dated. My idea would be to make clark kent superman purely byrne/postcrisis and triangle era. Jon is pretty damn good modern interpretation of the silverage superboy/man, right from tomasi's run. They have been trying to incorporate either silverage or golden superman aspects to byrne superman since late 90s.It just doesn't work.It creates a mess of characterisation. I mean, compare geoff johns secret origins to jon's secret origins. It's a no contest for me. A kid sneaking of on adventures fantastical pals and doing cool stuff that's a modern interpretation of silverage superboy.Instead, the "aw! Shucks!" farmboy is encouraged by his parents to go out and become a vigilante. On top of that, the suit is meant to be dorky now and There is no air of gravitas to the suit in secret origins. Comparing jon's secret origins in lois and clark, superman rebirth, supersons , legion... Etc and geoff johns superman secret origins. Jon is more a modern silverage superman than this version of superman could ever hope to be. Why do i say that? Well, whenever silverage aspects are added it's only a top most layer, skin deep and a coating with postcrisis superman . Silverage superman is the man of tomorrow. That's the emotion he should evoke.A feeling similar to Spielberg movies like et, iron giant, stranger things, fantastic four comics... Etc.Postcrisis byrne superman isn't meant to evoke that feeling.

    Here the suit is respected. Clark and lois don't try to shove jon into being a hero or adventurer or Vigilantism. Jon makes his own choices guided by instinct, situations...etc.He meets fantastic pals and go on adventures with them.while, i am not fond of the space prince nonsense. (A working class guy shouldn't be a king). But, then silverage superman wasn't tied to the working class origins. So, that's forgiven.A space prince having wierd adventures with pals and trying to advance the world into the future.

    Postcrisis superman is best represented in things like byrne, American alien, for all seasons... Etc. A humble lad from the farmlands trying to do good.So, go with that build of on it.

    As for conner, young justice and teen titans tv show both references goldenage social crusader for the little guy who leaps tall buildings in a single bound.Conner is clearly metropolis's boy. He is city guy. He is cool.He has a bit of an edge can be like zorro. He can be the man of action of action comics. He wears the jeans and t-shirt. He has worn the black insignia. A working class guy doing the right thing.

    Since,clark can't be either of these two guys anymore. It's better conner and jon evoke the feeling of these verisons of the character.My original idea of supermen of three worlds/eras being presented together for audiences today could come true. Everyone could get what they want.

    I actually agree with the way you separated the eras of superman and how the 3 of them could represent different things.

    As a conner/kon fan I like the way you described him, just add some TTK to that golden age asskicker

  7. #2542
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Ivy, Circe, Cheshire and Catwoman are femme fatale archetypes. The femme fatale character is essentially a demonization of the sexually active woman. It basically vilifies and, in many cases, punishes female characters for being sexual. A common argument against the push to make female characters more modest in design is that such actions are prudish, sexist and sex negative but that is far more true of constantly making female villains so associated with sexuality.

    This article explains it way better than I could

    https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/sexual...mpression=true
    Okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I think liking just about any Green Lantern that isn't Hal is more popular than controversial. I'm more or less okay with him so long as he isn't the sole focus of the franchise and he isn't written by Geoff Johns.
    Thought Johns was considered a good Lanterns writer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Liking the movies and shows more than the comics is certainly a controversial opinion though.
    Well, more people see the movies and stuff then read the comics anyways. Not much different than the MCU.
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  8. #2543
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    While I understand the desire to not just make Jon a clone of his father, I feel like making him "not-Superman" could cause more problems than it'd solve.

  9. #2544
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperX View Post
    I actually agree with the way you separated the eras of superman and how the 3 of them could represent different things.

    As a conner/kon fan I like the way you described him, just add some TTK to that golden age asskicker
    The thing about conner is that he was meant to be a celebrity originally. If i want him as a working class guy i would need to change the concept.

  10. #2545
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    While I understand the desire to not just make Jon a clone of his father, I feel like making him "not-Superman" could cause more problems than it'd solve.
    What do you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Thought Johns was considered a good Lanterns writer?
    If you're a Hal or Jessica fan, yes. If you're a John, Guy or Kyle fan, not so much.

  11. #2546
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What do you mean?
    It wouldn't fit brand superman as it is sold. It might throw monkey wrench into the standard themes of modern superman which is basically "thou shall do good and nice things" .Heck! Jon might become a competition,instead of support If it succeeds. He would stand out like a sour thumb, if it doesn't work. He would be a black sheep that nobody wants.Especially, since he wouldn't fit the superman mold.

  12. #2547
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Fans of Jon already like Jon for being the cute good kid, including as a teenager. Changes to that, for example, if he were an angsty violent teen... like how the first teaser cover of his teenage form implied, will be met with accusations that DC is being edgy again and ruining his character, and it did.

  13. #2548
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Thought Johns was considered a good Lanterns writer?
    I think it's widely accepted that Johns is a pivotal, even legendary, Lantern writer and his run was legitimately groundbreaking, but in retrospect you can kinda track the fragmentation of the Lantern fandom as it is today to his uneven treatment of the various Lanterns. Hal was the only character who was really elevated in his landmark run, and it began the era where DC actively had Hal eclipse anyone else in the franchise. I mean, he tends to get credit for Jessica Cruz as her creator but I'd argue it was Sam Humphries (and probably JL: Odyssey going forward) that made the character what she is today.
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  14. #2549
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I think it's widely accepted that Johns is a pivotal, even legendary, Lantern writer and his run was legitimately groundbreaking, but in retrospect you can kinda track the fragmentation of the Lantern fandom as it is today to his uneven treatment of the various Lanterns. Hal was the only character who was really elevated in his landmark run, and it began the era where DC actively had Hal eclipse anyone else in the franchise. I mean, he tends to get credit for Jessica Cruz as her creator but I'd argue it was Sam Humphries (and probably JL: Odyssey going forward) that made the character what she is today.
    Johns angered the John Stewart fans but the splintering of the GL fanbase happened with Emerald Twilight and Kyle Raynor becoming *the* GL.

  15. #2550
    Fantastic Member SuperX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    The thing about conner is that he was meant to be a celebrity originally. If i want him as a working class guy i would need to change the concept.

    His concept was already changed by Geoff Johns back in the teen titans series, so he doesn't need to be a celebrity or a working class guy, he can be what he wants to be, either or something else, like we see with every version of him

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