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  1. #2551
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Johns angered the John Stewart fans but the splintering of the GL fanbase happened with Emerald Twilight and Kyle Raynor becoming *the* GL.
    while Kyle becoming *the* GL definitely was a factor beforehand, the franchise still bounced back to being an ensemble, I feel like in and post the Johns era and DC's pivot to Hal being *the* GL, was when the franchise fragmented and has stayed fragmented to this day. mind you, this is just what I can gather following the throughline of GL stories in retrospect; I wasn't anywhere near reading comics at the time, so I could be wrong.
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  2. #2552
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    while Kyle becoming *the* GL definitely was a factor beforehand, the franchise still bounced back to being an ensemble, I feel like in and post the Johns era and DC's pivot to Hal being *the* GL, was when the franchise fragmented and has stayed fragmented to this day. mind you, this is just what I can gather following the throughline of GL stories in retrospect; I wasn't anywhere near reading comics at the time, so I could be wrong.
    The Kyle vs. Hal fan wars were pretty intense from what I've gathered (i wasn't reading at the time either). So much so that the DCAU staff picked John for JL/U to avoid the flame wars, which was a smart choice but also unwittingly contributed to them and created a third faction.

    Up until the invention of Kyle, Hal had pretty much been the lead from the late 50s to 1994, which is why the fanbase fragmented with Kyle. I think Johns reignited the fandom debates by going back to Hal, but it had been there already.

  3. #2553
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If you're a Hal or Jessica fan, yes. If you're a John, Guy or Kyle fan, not so much.
    Oh.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    I think it's widely accepted that Johns is a pivotal, even legendary, Lantern writer and his run was legitimately groundbreaking, but in retrospect you can kinda track the fragmentation of the Lantern fandom as it is today to his uneven treatment of the various Lanterns. Hal was the only character who was really elevated in his landmark run, and it began the era where DC actively had Hal eclipse anyone else in the franchise. I mean, he tends to get credit for Jessica Cruz as her creator but I'd argue it was Sam Humphries (and probably JL: Odyssey going forward) that made the character what she is today.
    I suspect that, like a lot of characters not in a single-creator-owned franchise, that she owes her complete existence to quite a few different writers and creators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Johns angered the John Stewart fans but the splintering of the GL fanbase happened with Emerald Twilight and Kyle Raynor becoming *the* GL.
    I get the impression that GL fans tend to latch onto a specific Lantern character as the thing they want the franchise to be about, rarely the franchise as a whole (remember hearing stories when HEAT was still a thing and all that).
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  4. #2554
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The Kyle vs. Hal fan wars were pretty intense from what I've gathered (i wasn't reading at the time either). So much so that the DCAU staff picked John for JL/U to avoid the flame wars, which was a smart choice but also unwittingly contributed to them and created a third faction.

    Up until the invention of Kyle, Hal had pretty much been the lead from the late 50s to 1994, which is why the fanbase fragmented with Kyle. I think Johns reignited the fandom debates by going back to Hal, but it had been there already.
    From reading the letter pages in the comics for Green Lantern Vol. 2 and Vol. 3 prior to Kyle's introduction there was plenty of hate to go around for Hal, John, and Guy. I wish I could find that one letter where it consisted of a fan wanting John Stewart to die so Hal Jordan could be the lead again. Or the many complaints of how unworthy Guy was to be on the Justice League and fans cheering when he lost to Hal. Or the Guy fans complaining that Hal sucked and that John was boring. Or that John was the best character and Hal and Guy were one-dimensional. It seems that the split was always there and got even worse with the fallout from Emerald Twilight and Kyle's introduction.

  5. #2555
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    GL fans fighting happened WAY before Geoff Johns. I became a fan of GL at around 2003 or 4, right around the tale end of the Kyle Rayner era. They were always at each others' throats. Kyle and Hal fans mostly fought and they both generally disliked John because he was on the Justice League cartoon instead of their favorite. At the time, John fans were a pretty silent bunch online from what I can tell. Maybe his audience hadn't generally gotten old enough. I dunno'. But he didn't seem a popular choice among online fans at the time.

    I wouldn't say only Hal benefited from the Johns era. Guy did, too. He had his longest runs as a semi-lead during that period, and it restored him to being a Green Lantern. Though, as a kid, I couldn't understand why, for the life of me, they had Guy Gardner starring in Green Lantern Corps instead of John Stewart, considering John was on TV at the time. I would read posts about how John had no writers that liked him. My gullible self thought, "Well, if that's the case, the editors should make writers use that character." What I didn't know what the time was that the editors didn't like him, either.

    It was just REALLY weird to see such a blatant discrepancy between the TV show and the comics, which I was trying to get into, but the comics seemed to be doing their damndest to not let me get into them. Comics fans would blame the show for not being comics accurate and would suggest that, while John could be there, the other Lanterns should be there, too. I was like, "Screw that. The show is all John has. Let him have it to himself instead of sharing space with these other guys."

    So, yeah, it was like everyone going at everyone, and I think I missed the worst of the Kyle and Hal stuff. It was more or less like today, I'd say.

  6. #2556
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    I liked Gateway City.

  7. #2557
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Falz View Post
    GL fans fighting happened WAY before Geoff Johns. I became a fan of GL at around 2003 or 4, right around the tale end of the Kyle Rayner era. They were always at each others' throats. Kyle and Hal fans mostly fought and they both generally disliked John because he was on the Justice League cartoon instead of their favorite. At the time, John fans were a pretty silent bunch online from what I can tell. Maybe his audience hadn't generally gotten old enough. I dunno'. But he didn't seem a popular choice among online fans at the time.

    I wouldn't say only Hal benefited from the Johns era. Guy did, too. He had his longest runs as a semi-lead during that period, and it restored him to being a Green Lantern. Though, as a kid, I couldn't understand why, for the life of me, they had Guy Gardner starring in Green Lantern Corps instead of John Stewart, considering John was on TV at the time. I would read posts about how John had no writers that liked him. My gullible self thought, "Well, if that's the case, the editors should make writers use that character." What I didn't know what the time was that the editors didn't like him, either.

    It was just REALLY weird to see such a blatant discrepancy between the TV show and the comics, which I was trying to get into, but the comics seemed to be doing their damndest to not let me get into them. Comics fans would blame the show for not being comics accurate and would suggest that, while John could be there, the other Lanterns should be there, too. I was like, "Screw that. The show is all John has. Let him have it to himself instead of sharing space with these other guys."

    So, yeah, it was like everyone going at everyone, and I think I missed the worst of the Kyle and Hal stuff. It was more or less like today, I'd say.
    Oh god, does anyone else remember HEAT?

    Hal's Emerald Advancement Team (I can't believe this website is still up) was this kind of aggressively Anti-Kyle... Community? Fansite? Faction? Something like that.

    I think I remember hearing that they sent some DC writers and editors death threats, which is more than a little messed up! I was pretty young at the time I was first starting to go online, and they were already on their last gasp by the time I became aware of them I think, but they always kind of symbolize the hyper-intense '90s and early '00s Green Lantern fandom infighting to me, haha!

    Sure there's still infighting now, but frankly I can't help but to think in some ways we're still riding the long distant shockwaves of the old Hal vs Kyle wars.

    Anyway, I like John too. My fiancee got her copy of Green Lantern Mosaic # 1 signed by Phil LaMarr, and it was awesome.
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  8. #2558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Oh god, does anyone else remember HEAT?

    Hal's Emerald Advancement Team (I can't believe this website is still up) was this kind of aggressively Anti-Kyle... Community? Fansite? Faction? Something like that.

    I think I remember hearing that they sent some DC writers and editors death threats, which is more than a little messed up! I was pretty young at the time I was first starting to go online, and they were already on their last gasp by the time I became aware of them I think, but they always kind of symbolize the hyper-intense '90s and early '00s Green Lantern fandom infighting to me, haha!

    Sure there's still infighting now, but frankly I can't help but to think in some ways we're still riding the long distant shockwaves of the old Hal vs Kyle wars.

    Anyway, I like John too. My fiancee got her copy of Green Lantern Mosaic # 1 signed by Phil LaMarr, and it was awesome.
    Heheh, yeah, of course I know HEAT. I think the insanity level varied from member to member. I think there were reasonable people among them who simply didn't like their favorite character being totally crapped all over, especially out of nowhere. I fully understand that. If you did the same thing to any of these characters, you'd see some people totally flip their shit.

    I liked John Stewart at the time. These days? Hmmmm...I dunno'. I'll never like him as much as I did when I was much younger. I guess I'm just over that and have moved on to other things. I had a GL figure collection filled with John stuff that I sold for about $500 (I'm really happy I found a single buyer for all of that stuff). I also had his first appearance issue in pretty good condition (I'd say it was about an 8-something), and I sold that for about $350. It was signed by Neal Adams, but that didn't add any value to it since it was as unverified signature. There are some sales that I regret, like my MIJ Fender Orange Crush Mustang guitar with matching headstock...but I do not regret those Green Lantern related sales at all.

  9. #2559
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Falz View Post
    Heheh, yeah, of course I know HEAT. I think the insanity level varied from member to member. I think there were reasonable people among them who simply didn't like their favorite character being totally crapped all over, especially out of nowhere. I fully understand that. If you did the same thing to any of these characters, you'd see some people totally flip their shit.


    Oh definitely.

    Honestly, I think the term 'members' was really a stretch. I was a MASSIVE supporter of Hal and despised Kyle and Marz for the whole Parallax thing. However it was the very beginning of the internet and there was never any real organization or membership to my knowledge. If you wanted Hal back... you were pretty much with HEAT... If someone got too crazy and stupid... Well, I'm not like THEM :P

    Back then it was fresh and new with 'somewhat' of an outlet for fans to express displeasure... that just didn't exist when Jason Todd or Barry Allen were replaced. But now that's its commonplace, HEAT isn't THAT different then eveyr other message board out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Oh god, does anyone else remember HEAT?



    Hal's Emerald Advancement Team (I can't believe this website is still up) was this kind of aggressively Anti-Kyle... Community? Fansite? Faction? Something like that.

    Sure there's still infighting now, but frankly I can't help but to think in some ways we're still riding the long distant shockwaves of the old Hal vs Kyle wars.
    Of course. As it should be... That era when Kyle took over the book decimated the Green Lantern Fans. It was really the last time that Hal, Guy, AND John ALL had their own ongoing titles. Then there was the GLC quarterly for spotlighting the alien corps members and even Alan Scott. It really was a golden time for Green Lantern Fans.

    When Kyle came along and Hal was destroyed... since then everyone has been fighting for spotlight and the ship never really was righted. Hal turned out okay under Johns... but even he played second fiddle to Sinestro for a lot of it. John's in the background, Guy 'co-shared' his book and lost his supporting cast... Heck, everyone lost their supporting cast unless they were wearing a ring.

    And they've gone and created NEW human lanterns to fight for the spotlight.... so I absolutley agree that the infighting is still the remenants of the late 90's.

  10. #2560
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    And they've gone and created NEW human lanterns to fight for the spotlight.... so I absolutley agree that the infighting is still the remenants of the late 90's.
    I don't dispute that the 90s made it much worse. Hal got crapped on out of nowhere. Rings were lost and titles were stripped at different times, too. Guy got a really weird alien heritage backstory...I might be mixing up timing on some of these.

    Honestly, I think it's a partly just a consequence of having multiple Earth Lanterns. It's happened in other franchises, too (look what happens with the Robins). It's a breeding ground for fan infighting over which "Title X" is the best and deserves to get the role whenever they need a "Title X" (a cartoon, being on the Justice League, getting a tv series or movie, etc). Even more a problem when the franchise can't sustain a solo title for each of them, there are going to fan arguments over who gets it. The internet made those a lot easier to engage in more frequently. It doesn't help when the professional writers start undermining the others to make the one they like best the superior one, either. And worst of all when one (or more) get totally trashed, villainized, killed-off, etc. to further another.

    Really, I've said before that Damian's intro story was tailor-made to provoke in-fighting, but Hal's Exit/Kyle's entrance that times 10.

    edit: to remove claim; can't remember details or source
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-22-2020 at 05:04 PM.

  11. #2561
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't dispute that the 90s made it much worse. Hal got crapped on out of nowhere (to the point that certain dialog was changed in subsequent reprinting of one story to make him less heroic/impressive). Rings were lost and titles were stripped at different times, too. Guy got a really weird alien heritage backstory...I might be mixing up timing on some of these.
    .
    Ohhhh I don't remember hearing that about the dialogue being changed. What was that?

  12. #2562
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Ohhhh I don't remember hearing that about the dialogue being changed. What was that?
    You know, I have to cop to it - I might be wrong about that. I remember reading something was changed (because Hal's fall was unplanned by editorial until the last moment), but I don't remember exactly what it was. So I can't cite a source. Or even be certain it isn't my own memory of what I read playing tricks on me. I didn't start reading comics until 1994, and that was Marvel, so I've never seen the originals of these stories. I retract that part.

  13. #2563
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    You know, I have to cop to it - I might be wrong about that. I remember reading something was changed (because Hal's fall was unplanned by editorial until the last moment), but I don't remember exactly what it was. So I can't cite a source. Or even be certain it isn't my own memory of what I read playing tricks on me. I didn't start reading comics until 1994, and that was Marvel, so I've never seen the originals of these stories. I retract that part.
    I had most of the first printings back then, so I never bothered to check the reprints. Now you got me curious

  14. #2564
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I had most of the first printings back then, so I never bothered to check the reprints. Now you got me curious
    My (questionable) memory was that it was between Coast City's destruction and Emerald Twilight.

  15. #2565
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    I like seeing alternate versions, sometimes more than seeing new stories in the main continuity.

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