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  1. #2596
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Guess my controversial GL opinion is I liked Hal Jordan's grey temples.
    I liked them as well, although I'm a huge of older heroes showing greys.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nontheless):

    DC: Batman Beyond, Red Hood, Far Sector
    Marvel: Marauders, X-Force, X-Men, X-Factor, New Mutants, Hellions, Miles Morales: Spider-Man, Immortal Hulk, Venom, Daredevil
    LionForge: Noble, Astonisher
    Image: Killadelphia, Bitter Root, Excellence
    IDW: TMNT: The Last Ronin
    Other: XOGeneSYS, Clock Striker, Is'Nana The Were-Spider

  2. #2597
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    if i want to portray the bad of Vigilantism,then batman would torture people. i find the white washing that happens to support "superhero" narrative to inadvertently advocating for vigilante justice. Cause, he is vigilante. he shouldn't exist.As if, violence is something that can be that easy to control.I don't view Superman, batman, ... etc as heroes or some sort good guys. Being batman is not a prideful statement. it should never be.
    Iím starting to think youíre just a troll since youíve basically said that you hate the premise behind comic books on a comic book forum.

  3. #2598
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Really, I've said before that Damian's intro story was tailor-made to provoke in-fighting, but Hal's Exit/Kyle's entrance that times 10.
    In-fighting between who? Fans who prefer Tim over Damian? Or Dick or Jason over Damian? Or Selina over Talia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Falz View Post
    It didn't make sense. I'm pretty sure the actual comics state Hal Jordan got the ring 15 years ago when we first see him with grey hair.
    To be fair, Hal did spend some time in the future...

  4. #2599
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    In-fighting between who? Fans who prefer Tim over Damian? Or Dick or Jason over Damian? Or Selina over Talia?
    I meant infighting in the Batfandom. Because people who had Tim as a favorite (or event just had a strong like of him) were extremely likely to dislike the new character when new character shows up, puts a beat down on Tim, and in result Tim gets fired and new character gets his role.

  5. #2600
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I’m starting to think you’re just a troll since you’ve basically said that you hate the premise behind comic books on a comic book forum.
    Nah! Just saying superhero being good guy is essentially and inherently jumping hoops. So, i don't care if someone decides to show concept what it truly represents. It's advocating vigilante justice. Nothing more or less.Also, where did say I hate superheroes?Batman doesn't automatically mean good. A theif can be portrayed as a good guy or he can be portrayed for what it truly entails.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-26-2020 at 09:51 AM.

  6. #2601
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Nah! Just saying superhero being good guy is essentially and inherently jumping hoops. So, i don't care if someone decides to show concept what it truly represents. It's advocating vigilante justice. Nothing more or less.Also, where did say I hate superheroes?Batman doesn't automatically mean good. A theif can be portrayed as a good guy or he can be portrayed for what it truly entails.
    There's "criticism", and then there's "denying the basic premise of a superhero comic".

    It's even worse that you used Batman as an example when even in-universe he's not always seen as a good thing and often as a necessary evil.

  7. #2602
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    The overabundance of "Superman goes evil" stories do far more damage in the treatment of other DC characters (save for Batman) than they do for Superman.
    Last edited by Gaius; 10-26-2020 at 09:20 PM.

  8. #2603

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    The overabundance of "Superman goes evil" stories do more far damage in the treatment of other DC characters (save for Batman) than they do for Superman.
    Definitely this.

    "Evil Superman" stories have become overdone, trite, & arguably damaging to his character, but they do no favors for Wonder Woman either.

    Usually when there's an "evil Superman" story, one of two things happen with Diana:
    1) she's just as evil as he is and often for less reason (Injustice, the Justice Lords, Red Son)
    2) she's crushed by him with embarrassing ease (DCeased, the Justice League movie, Absolute Power)

    There are exceptions like Sacrifice, but more often than not, "evil Superman" stories don't just drag him through the mud, they piss on Wonder Woman, too.


    It does the other DC heroes--not just Diana--a major disservice to make them look like a bunch losers who only exist in relation to Superman's mood swings.
    Last edited by Guy_McNichts; 10-26-2020 at 09:23 PM.
    "Never place your trust in us. We're only human. Inevitably, we will disappoint you."


  9. #2604
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    There's "criticism", and then there's "denying the basic premise of a superhero comic".

    It's even worse that you used Batman as an example when even in-universe he's not always seen as a good thing and often as a necessary evil.
    What basic premises did i deny? That people want to celebrate batman or superman the original vigilante for that matter as some sort of heroes? For that end, they want batman to not indulge in anything that can be misappropriate like torturing people in this instance. All i am saying is that the who superhero is built on the misappropriate. These guys are a bunch of criminals already.Those who feel batman is too violent many outings need to take a look at the basic premise itself which is inherently violent, advocating lawlessness and that brand of justice . As said, a thief can be portrayed as robin hood or just plain theif. Just because robin hood is what you like doesn't mean the plan theif interpretation is wrong.

    Well, that's precisely how he should be portrayed.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-27-2020 at 01:36 AM.

  10. #2605
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I meant infighting in the Batfandom. Because people who had Tim as a favorite (or event just had a strong like of him) were extremely likely to dislike the new character when new character shows up, puts a beat down on Tim, and in result Tim gets fired and new character gets his role.
    Kind of like with Dick and Jason. I mean Jason didn't beat down on Dick didn't stop those who had Dick as a fav hating on Jason.

  11. #2606
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I think you highlighted why Batman's portrayal can often get annoying. His flaws don't stop writers from portraying him as an "ultimate hero".

    It can come off as glorifying depression and mental illness.
    More than that writers tend to handwave his dubious decisions/actions or expect readers to view it as nothing wrong.

    Torture, acting as Big Brother, having his own personal jail, Excessive force etc he gets away with it all. Writers seem to be crying to outdo each other how far they can push the character forgetting that 1at and foremost he should be a good guy with the best intentions

  12. #2607
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    In the same vein... I miss Batman, in some ways. Batman is one of my favorite characters, and I don't feel like I often have cause to remember that fact.
    WHEN YOU DON'T VOTE, IT ISN'T REBELLION, IT'S SURRENDER!

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  13. #2608
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    In the same vein... I miss Batman, in some ways. Batman is one of my favorite characters, and I don't feel like I often have cause to remember that fact.
    To help myself with this, i usually consider the Batman who is one of my favorite characters as a different person to the tedious pain in the ass we most have now.

    The real Batman was replaced by a mentally unstable clone around the time of COIE and he keeps getting worse

  14. #2609
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Definitely this.

    "Evil Superman" stories have become overdone, trite, & arguably damaging to his character, but they do no favors for Wonder Woman either.

    Usually when there's an "evil Superman" story, one of two things happen with Diana:
    1) she's just as evil as he is and often for less reason (Injustice, the Justice Lords, Red Son)
    2) she's crushed by him with embarrassing ease (DCeased, the Justice League movie, Absolute Power)

    There are exceptions like Sacrifice, but more often than not, "evil Superman" stories don't just drag him through the mud, they piss on Wonder Woman, too.


    It does the other DC heroes--not just Diana--a major disservice to make them look like a bunch losers who only exist in relation to Superman's mood swings.
    Yeah, they msotly lose all sense of agency/competency and comes off as writers making it up for Batman usually one-upping him by giving Superman the rest of the DC Universe to chump out as a consolation prize.

  15. #2610
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I don't know if it really harms the other heroes as much as Superman.
    He seems to be the one consistently made evil/brainwashed is the biggest visible target of it. Like all the JL may be brainwashed in the Suicide Squad game, but Superman is the one they went with in the marketing. he's the main villain in Injustice. There was an aborted film arc setting up something similar, etc.

    People don't have as many preconceived notions about the other heroes to make it as noteworthy or have as much fallout. Wonder Woman is the closest to taking hard hits with the "evil" stuff and they find other bad trends to apply to her, but she at least has her live action movies currently overshadowing any other dumb crap they do with her.

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