Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[byrd156]

I stand by my statements.

When people learned how to be overcome adversity and become a champion from Lance Armstrong and how to be a kind hearted family man from Bill Cosby... it's dangerous and stupid to set mere humans as heroes and inspirational goals. Every time you turn on the tv or open a browser someone, somewhere is letting you down.

Superman and Wonder Woman... Should be the best they can be. They should exemplify the morals and the goals and they don't do anything so... wrong unless a writer and an editor let them. The question was 'why should I look up to fictional characters?'

That's my answer

Very well said.

[Killerbee911]

I feel the same way about 'Sports stars and celebrities.'

The difference is that Superman is imaginary enough that he SHOULD be inspirational. Comic book 'heroes' by their nature should represent everything we could be and everything we should want to be in a glorious black vs. white world. No concerns about about doping scandals, sex scandals, political aspirations that drag down the 'real world' people that so many look up to.

Except that making Superman so inspirational and aspirational makes him feel suspect to this generation. Scandals about our heroes didn't come out,Scandals about to days heroes do come out. It is easier to get someone today to believe in alien that is get someone to believe that person has no major flaws or skeletons. We see all of our heroes the Lance Armstongs,The Bill cosbies , The Hollywood dream couples be flawed that someone like Superman feels fake and you wonder what is his character defect or skeleton in his closet.Someone with no issues today is red flag. This generation knows even the best people have flaws.This generation knows there is a cost/price to doing the right thing with no comprises.

Trying to build Superman like in the past is recipe for failure in some ways. If Superman is aspirational but spending all his time saving people is effecting his family life and he is a little bit of bad father and husband is more believable than superman where you see no flaws. It is weird if you hear a celebrity couple is arguing you actually believe the couple is real. This generation doesn't believe in fantasy of perfect, so almost perfect works better

[SilverWarriorWolf]

Except that making Superman so inspirational and aspirational makes him feel suspect to this generation. Scandals about our heroes didn't come out,Scandals about to days heroes do come out. It is easier to get someone today to believe in alien that is get someone to believe that person has no major flaws or skeletons. We see all of our heroes the Lance Armstongs,The Bill cosbies , The Hollywood dream couples be flawed that someone like Superman feels fake and you wonder what is his character defect or skeleton in his closet.Someone with no issues today is red flag. This generation knows even the best people have flaws.This generation knows there is a cost/price to doing the right thing with no comprises.

Trying to build Superman like in the past is recipe for failure in some ways. If Superman is aspirational but spending all his time saving people is effecting his family life and he is a little bit of bad father and husband is more believable than superman where you see no flaws. It is weird if you hear a celebrity couple is arguing you actually believe the couple is real. This generation doesn't believe in fantasy of perfect, so almost perfect works better

That is a rather cynical way of seeing things.

[byrd156]

Except that making Superman so inspirational and aspirational makes him feel suspect to this generation. Scandals about our heroes didn't come out,Scandals about to days heroes do come out. It is easier to get someone today to believe in alien that is get someone to believe that person has no major flaws or skeletons. We see all of our heroes the Lance Armstongs,The Bill cosbies , The Hollywood dream couples be flawed that someone like Superman feels fake and you wonder what is his character defect or skeleton in his closet.Someone with no issues today is red flag. This generation knows even the best people have flaws.This generation knows there is a cost/price to doing the right thing with no comprises.

Trying to build Superman like in the past is recipe for failure in some ways. If Superman is aspirational but spending all his time saving people is effecting his family life and he is a little bit of bad father and husband is more believable than superman where you see no flaws. It is weird if you hear a celebrity couple is arguing you actually believe the couple is real. This generation doesn't believe in fantasy of perfect, so almost perfect works better

What generation are you referring to?

[Killerbee911]

That is a rather cynical way of seeing things.

Maybe but that is the society people are growing up in, They protected the celebrities, actors, sports star and politicians in my time. They don't that today, How many seeming happy perfect celebrities or popular figure either break up with their wife, have a drug addiction, the reality they are hard to work with, kill themselves, etc. In Superman heyday, it was easier to believe in near perfection because didn't get to see those flaws. It is cynical and it is why Superman is harder to pull off today. You see it in the shows and movies find the popular character who always does the right thing and is living a happy life. Maybe I am wrong and that's why Superman should be inspirational and not flawed because that is so different. But the easiest way to make the archetype today is to give them a "good" character flaw so the alarm doesn't go off.

A person walks up hands you a million dollars in a briefcase and says nothing. Is the first instinct I have a million dollars or is what is wrong? Probably the later we are trained to look for the wrong.

[jetengine]

Supermans flaws are....

He can be naive at times regarding how shitty people can be.
He cares too much which can lead to personal stress and anxiety.
He occasionally has crisis of self regarding his shared heritage.
He doubts himself at times because he feels like he could do more but then he steps over the line of protecter to ruler.

[Lee Stone]

Maybe but that is the society people are growing up in, They protected the celebrities, actors, sports star and politicians in my time. They don't that today, How many seeming happy perfect celebrities or popular figure either break up with their wife, have a drug addiction, the reality they are hard to work with, kill themselves, etc. In Superman heyday, it was easier to believe in near perfection because didn't get to see those flaws. It is cynical and it is why Superman is harder to pull off today. You see it in the shows and movies find the popular character who always does the right thing and is living a happy life. Maybe I am wrong and that's why Superman should be inspirational and not flawed because that is so different. But the easiest way to make the archetype today is to give them a "good" character flaw so the alarm doesn't go off.

A person walks up hands you a million dollars in a briefcase and says nothing. Is the first instinct I have a million dollars or is what is wrong? Probably the later we are trained to look for the wrong.

Fortunately, things do seem to cycle after a few generations.
Call me optimistic.

I remember my mom staying over with me one night because I had to take her to a surgery the following morning.
And she always had to watch the ten o'clock news.

So we're sitting there watching the news...
And I noticed she would pay attention during the bad stuff and then talk over the good.
At one point, I said to her 'Did you see that? That was pretty cool.'
She had been talking, so of course she didn't.
It was a story about a cop helping a homeless man find a home and a job.
It totally flew past her.

Some people just naturally tune out the good.
While some choose to tune out the bad. Or try to.

I'm a firm believer in the power of influence.
If I can have a positive influence on others around me, then they, in turn, will start to have a positive influence on others.
And, as Michael Jackson said, it starts with the man (or woman) in the mirror.

[Jim Kelly]

In a society where things are going good for the majority of people--the economy is stable, the natural environment is healthy, there's access to medical and social supports, everyone feels included--then it doesn't seem so absurd that the people in the movies have the same kind of experience. You don't look at a movie and think the characters are too pure and good, because most people you know are good, honest, hard working individuals who love their family and respect their friends.

It's in societies under pressure (economic, environmental, medical and social) where everything collapses and bad behaviour becomes the norm.

If you live in a society that has these positive qualities, then a movie that presents a contrary narrative seems extreme and hard to swallow. And that kind of narrative might not be popular--unless presented as a comedy or a horror story.

"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings."

[SiegePerilous02]

Except that making Superman so inspirational and aspirational makes him feel suspect to this generation. Scandals about our heroes didn't come out,Scandals about to days heroes do come out. It is easier to get someone today to believe in alien that is get someone to believe that person has no major flaws or skeletons. We see all of our heroes the Lance Armstongs,The Bill cosbies , The Hollywood dream couples be flawed that someone like Superman feels fake and you wonder what is his character defect or skeleton in his closet.Someone with no issues today is red flag. This generation knows even the best people have flaws.This generation knows there is a cost/price to doing the right thing with no comprises.

Trying to build Superman like in the past is recipe for failure in some ways. If Superman is aspirational but spending all his time saving people is effecting his family life and he is a little bit of bad father and husband is more believable than superman where you see no flaws. It is weird if you hear a celebrity couple is arguing you actually believe the couple is real. This generation doesn't believe in fantasy of perfect, so almost perfect works better

Then man, this generation kinda sucks if the good guy who does good things because it's the right thing to do isn't deemed trustworthy or interesting enough to them. He has relateable character flaws, especially in his younger days, but if they want anything beyond that or they don't buy into it...they are too cynical and I don't see the value of making the character conform to their expectations.

His flaws can include being too brash in his pursuit of social justice in his younger days, needing to learn more restraint as his power grows, and being unable to let his personal walls down and let loved ones too close. He cannot even bring himself to tell his close work friends the truth about his two identities, even though they interact with both and one of them he has romantic feelings for. And this leads him to struggle with loneliness/otherness, even if some of it is his own doing. I think those are interesting and nuanced enough that we don't need to find any skeletons in his closet to prove some questionable point.

[The_Lurk]

This is probably blasphemy...

Frank Millers All-Star-Batman reads like it wants to be taken serious while being unaware that its some kind of grotesque parody; just without the wit and charm or any other of a parodies positive qualities. Its a horrible train-wreck whose only redeeming quality is Jim Lees art.

And now I guess its running for my life time *sighs and sprints*

[Dred]

Trashing ASBAR isn't particularly unpopular. It's fairly often mocked for its eccentricities

[Lightning Rider]

Supermans flaws are....

He can be naive at times regarding how shitty people can be.
He cares too much which can lead to personal stress and anxiety.
He occasionally has crisis of self regarding his shared heritage.
He doubts himself at times because he feels like he could do more but then he steps over the line of protecter to ruler.

Yep. Not to mention secretive and at times over-confident.

His flaws are there, and make for a great story when not overwhelming.

[DrNewGod]

This is probably blasphemy...

Frank Millers All-Star-Batman reads like it wants to be taken serious while being unaware that its some kind of grotesque parody; just without the wit and charm or any other of a parodies positive qualities. Its a horrible train-wreck whose only redeeming quality is Jim Lees art.

And now I guess its running for my life time *sighs and sprints*

I'm with ya bud. I sometimes think Miller is like an actor who hit big early in his career, figured out which persona was most popular, and has just played that character ever since.

[superduperman]

This is probably blasphemy...

Frank Millers All-Star-Batman reads like it wants to be taken serious while being unaware that its some kind of grotesque parody; just without the wit and charm or any other of a parodies positive qualities. Its a horrible train-wreck whose only redeeming quality is Jim Lees art.

And now I guess its running for my life time *sighs and sprints*

No, you're right. Everybody and their dog at the time it came out kept trying to sell this idea that he was doing it ironically. He wasn't. He just lost his talent. It's meant to be "serious" like DKR or Year One but he just doesn't know how to write good comics anymore. There's a reason they put Azzarello on with him for the third one.

[superduperman]

Controversial opinion: I can enjoy Superman as a character, but I don't find him aspirational, nor do I understand why I'm supposed to. He's a comic book character, not a household god.

That's fair. I feel the same way about Batman.