Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[CosmiComic]

The only era that actually used the "big 7" consistently is Gardner Fox and Johns, and post-Rebirth. Morrison had rotating cast of characters. The 80s and 90s hardly ever use them together. The 70s had a nice cast too.

And, I disagree, there are plenty of more stories to tell with them.

You don't think the JL could be more diverse?

[CosmiComic]

The concept of "legacy characters" is stupid. Unless the character hits it with the fans, they don't add much to the franchise. It's better to expand on characters than to add another Robin or Kid Flash. Or Superman or Batman.

I honestly don't get this complaint at all, and I see it all the time

[Aahz]

Society has moved past the need the for a team consisted five white males, one white woman and a non-human character and/or one token black member. It's 2021 and a roster does not have to reflect that anymore. There are so many members that can keep up power wise. Doctor Fate, Captain Atom, Black Lightning, Doctor Light, Shilo Norman, etc. Everything that needed to be said with The Big Seven has been said already. Adding different sorts of members creates a fresh and interesting dynamic.

Character like Doctor Fate and Captain Atom are the ones that I was refering to with Heavy Hitter and powerfull magic user, those are characters that fit in the league. But often they choose characters that don't.

Justice League Detroit and Justice League International had for example lots of characters on the team that had imo lots of characters on the roaster, who had based on their power and experience had not really much business being on the team.

Worst offender was probably Gypsy, a teen age run away with some weak illusion powers is not really a character that belongs in the JLA.

When it comes to characters like Black Lightning or Doctor Light (and you can probably also add characters like Black Canary, Green Arrow or the Atom here), you can put a few of those into the League, but if they make up the majority of the League, the League just stops feeling like the team of the most powerfull heros.

[Neo Goblin]

You don't think the JL could be more diverse?

I'm a big proponent of diversity in comics, but at the same time, I'm not one of these "diversity or bust" people, who I think put the cart in front of the horse a lot of the time.

There should be more diverse characters who really deserve to be on the Justice League, in the same way that the founders do. I don't subscribe to the thinking of:
"Wellll...we need some diversity, don't we? Who do we have? Ummm...Cyborg! He really doesn't have too much going on by himself, but he's black, so let's use him! Or John Stewart! We can just give him all of Hal Jordan's stuff, and it will be okay because he's black...right?"
Again, the cart in front of the horse.

The reason the Silver Age characters worked well together and why it was special to see them together is because they stood independently on their own. Martian Manhunter has always seemed to be the odd man out because he doesn't stand nearly as well on his own. Thus, he gets to be the resident mascot guy, which actually does work okay, but he's relegated to that role and is more or less always in that role. The guy who is perpetually on monitor duty and doesn't seem to have anything going on outside of the Justice League. The same thing happened to Cyborg.

I would be really impressed if DC built up diverse characters that contribute to the greater mythology of DC Comics the way that the leading white characters do. Making legions of diverse legacy characters that bite off of the white ones and usually don't get developed much, or just throwing diverse characters around the Justice League to 'keep up appearances' doesn't impress me.

Perhaps I'm holding DC to too high a standard, or perhaps my thinking is unrealistic for DC. I don't think so. I think I simply have standards.
So, rather than throwing diverse characters around the Justice League, I think I'd rather see DC build diverse characters up and have them contribute more to DC's mythology. But...that sort of thing requires planning and patience, and people in comics don't seem to have much of that going on. The fans seem to be impatient themselves.

[Lightning63]

I'm a big proponent of diversity in comics, but at the same time, I'm not one of these "diversity or bust" people, who I think put the cart in front of the horse a lot of the time.

There should be more diverse characters who really deserve to be on the Justice League, in the same way that the founders do. I don't subscribe to the thinking of:
"Wellll...we need some diversity, don't we? Who do we have? Ummm...Cyborg! He really doesn't have too much going on by himself, but he's black, so let's use him! Or John Stewart! We can just give him all of Hal Jordan's stuff, and it will be okay because he's black...right?"
Again, the cart in front of the horse.

The reason the Silver Age characters worked well together and why it was special to see them together is because they stood independently on their own. Martian Manhunter has always seemed to be the odd man out because he doesn't stand nearly as well on his own. Thus, he gets to be the resident mascot guy, which actually does work okay, but he's relegated to that role and is more or less always in that role. The guy who is perpetually on monitor duty and doesn't seem to have anything going on outside of the Justice League. The same thing happened to Cyborg.

I would be really impressed if DC built up diverse characters that contribute to the greater mythology of DC Comics the way that the leading white characters do. Making legions of diverse legacy characters that bite off of the white ones and usually don't get developed much, or just throwing diverse characters around the Justice League to 'keep up appearances' doesn't impress me.

Perhaps I'm holding DC to too high a standard, or perhaps my thinking is unrealistic for DC. I don't think so. I think I simply have standards.
So, rather than throwing diverse characters around the Justice League, I think I'd rather see DC build diverse characters up and have them contribute more to DC's mythology. But...that sort of thing requires planning and patience, and people in comics don't seem to have much of that going on. The fans seem to be impatient themselves.

Black Lightning and Cassandra Cain are the ones that come to mind that could work as standalone heroes in the justice league if they were pushed well along with Cyborg with his Titans history intact.

I generally think DC should push their female characters more. While Marvel has better diversity racially I think DC has a far better female roster. I think Black Canary, Starfire, and Jessica Cruz Green Lantern just off from memory would work well alongside the other members.

[Aahz]

Black Lightning and Cassandra Cain are the ones that come to mind that could work as standalone heroes in the justice league if they were pushed well along with Cyborg with his Titans history intact.

As Batfamily member Cassandra Cain is never really going to be a standalone character, she will always be to some extend a part of the Batman mythos.

To bring Black Lightning to that point would be a pretty hard feat, he might be around for more than 40 years at this point, but he never really had a really strong run or story in the comics.

And I think he shares that with a lot of DCs older diverse characters, after so many years without ever really breaking out it is really hard to make people see them as important. It might aczaly be easier to create a new character who feels like he belongs along side the Big 6, then to elevate one of the old ones.

[Adekis]

I mean, as much pushback as there was to Vic "Cyborg" Stone in 2011, I do think DC has succeeded pretty well in "elevating" him to a Justice League character. I don't think of him as being a "monitor duty guy" who never does anything outside of the League.

Then again, I usually pick up his solo series as well. Maybe his outside superheroic career doesn't come across to fans who really only experience him in relation to other JL characters?

[Agent Z]

If no one has an issue with Plastic Man of all characters being on the League, then there shouldn't be an issue with Cyborg or John Stewart. The League has had characters with far less merit on the roster.

[CosmiComic]

I'm a big proponent of diversity in comics, but at the same time, I'm not one of these "diversity or bust" people, who I think put the cart in front of the horse a lot of the time.

There should be more diverse characters who really deserve to be on the Justice League, in the same way that the founders do. I don't subscribe to the thinking of:
"Wellll...we need some diversity, don't we? Who do we have? Ummm...Cyborg! He really doesn't have too much going on by himself, but he's black, so let's use him! Or John Stewart! We can just give him all of Hal Jordan's stuff, and it will be okay because he's black...right?"
Again, the cart in front of the horse.

The reason the Silver Age characters worked well together and why it was special to see them together is because they stood independently on their own. Martian Manhunter has always seemed to be the odd man out because he doesn't stand nearly as well on his own. Thus, he gets to be the resident mascot guy, which actually does work okay, but he's relegated to that role and is more or less always in that role. The guy who is perpetually on monitor duty and doesn't seem to have anything going on outside of the Justice League. The same thing happened to Cyborg.

I would be really impressed if DC built up diverse characters that contribute to the greater mythology of DC Comics the way that the leading white characters do. Making legions of diverse legacy characters that bite off of the white ones and usually don't get developed much, or just throwing diverse characters around the Justice League to 'keep up appearances' doesn't impress me.

Perhaps I'm holding DC to too high a standard, or perhaps my thinking is unrealistic for DC. I don't think so. I think I simply have standards.
So, rather than throwing diverse characters around the Justice League, I think I'd rather see DC build diverse characters up and have them contribute more to DC's mythology. But...that sort of thing requires planning and patience, and people in comics don't seem to have much of that going on. The fans seem to be impatient themselves.

No offense, but how exactly do characters "deserve" to be on the team? The originals were there just because they were available. What's wrong with Cyborg or John Stewart?

And fans are impatient because DC hasn't made enough effort.

[Sutekh]

If no one has an issue with Plastic Man of all characters being on the League, then there shouldn't be an issue with Cyborg or John Stewart. The League has had characters with far less merit on the roster.

Now I want to see a League lineup that has only 'seventh' members. Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Black Canary, Hawkwoman, Plastic Man. Maybe Captain Marvel/Shazam.

None of the 'big six,' just the leftover peeps who get rotated through that seventh slot.

[marhawkman]

Now I want to see a League lineup that has only 'seventh' members. Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Black Canary, Hawkwoman, Plastic Man. Maybe Captain Marvel/Shazam.

None of the 'big six,' just the leftover peeps who get rotated through that seventh slot.

This is part of what made the JLU cartoon so good. The "lesser" members are used "less" than the main team, but you still get to see them do stuff.

[Aahz]

What's wrong with Cyborg or John Stewart?

I think with Cyborg it comes down to him being created as character for an other team book, and almost all of his stories being connected to this team, he has simply not much going on as a solo character.

With John Stewart it is similar, he was never really the lead of the Green Lantern Franchise, for a longer periode of time. Most of the major important events and villains of that franchise are either connected with Hal or Kyle. And if they would retcon him to be one of the Founders of the Justice League (like they did with Cyborg in the New52) or make him the main Black Lantern for any adaptations in other media you basically would have to give a lot of Hal's history to John.

[Agent Z]

I think with Cyborg it comes down to him being created as character for an other team book, and almost all of his stories being connected to this team, he has simply not much going on as a solo character.

The same can be said of numerous other characters who make into the League without fuss including Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl, the latter of whom started out as a Hawkman supporting character.

With John Stewart it is similar, he was never really the lead of the Green Lantern Franchise, for a longer periode of time. Most of the major important events and villains of that franchise are either connected with Hal or Kyle. And if they would retcon him to be one of the Founders of the Justice League (like they did with Cyborg in the New52) or make him the main Black Lantern for any adaptations in other media you basically would have to give a lot of Hal's history to John.

The DCAU proves that this is not true.

[9th.]

I wanna know the criteria for characters that deserve to be on the league, especially if Cyborg and John Stewart don't count. I can understand some characters being out of place but having to argue for a spot for Vic or John seems weird with their background.

[Aahz]

The same can be said of numerous other characters who make into the League without fuss including Martian Manhunter and Hawkgirl, the latter of whom started out as a Hawkman supporting character.

Personally I find it also odd when they promote Hawkgirl to member and leave Hawkman out.

The DCAU proves that this is not true.

The DCAU didn't do any storylines that used Green Lantern Stuff. He also works fine as a League member, you only get this problem that you need to "steal" Hal Jordans stuff if he gets promoted to a founder and the first human Lantern, and you give him solo stories.


To make it clear I personally don't really have a problem with any of those characters on the League, I just think that if the Balance of "Big 6" and "non Big 6" members shifts to far to the "non Big 6" (especially if those those "non Big 6" don't really have the power and experience to that put's them on a level close to the "Big 6"), the Justice League to me stops feeling like the Justice League.