Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[dietrich]

One thread or other did dream up the idea of Tim and Conner partnering in a title where they had semi-retired as heroes and opened a civilian detective agency. Tim's a great detective obvi, Conner's pretty smart and has enhanced senses, neither need to be "active" superheroes to do cool stuff....it seemed to me like a pretty fun place to put them that offered something unique in the line. But in any case, the kids gotta find a niche that's viable and reunions aren't cutting it. I fear this generation will share the Titan's curse, forced to eternally keep getting together no matter how futile and awful it is.

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See, I like that idea. A series that balances their personal life alongside their crime fighting. Give it a slight slice of life vibe [You know like Friends TV show kinda vibe , highlighting their friendship/closeness] or have the series feature their romantic life just a bit more than the regular super hero comic.

If social media is a good metric then there seems to be a big interest in the superhero love lives.

I don't know what's on the stands from marvel but there's not any DC title that's current doing something like that.

[Tzigone]

1) DC has way too many titles that are Batman oriented and need to realize that Batman & Superman are not their only characters

I don't know about Superman, but I've certainly head the argument they have sort of sabotaged themselves with Batman. By far the biggest seller, but they damaged many of their other heroes continuing to promote/glorify Batman (he's the most popular so they have him physically/mentally/morally smack down the others, so he becomes more popular, so they have him do so more, and then repeat). The end up not having a deep bench of heroes people are into. Some people only read JL events because Batman is there and otherwise read only Batman while others avoid anything Batman is in with other heroes it's just going to end with their favorite either getting a smackdown from Bats or playing second fiddle. I'd say more in the former camp, though I was in the latter. But that was several years ago, so maybe things have improved since then.

But I agree in sentiment about using other heroes more. Thing is they have to figure out how to make them popular enough that people will buy just as many of that book as they would of a Supes or Bat book. Making the comics doesn't help if people don't buy them. And while sometimes they don't buy them because they aren't that good, sometimes they are good and still don't get bought. DC needs to figure out how to successfully promote their other heroes, but I don't know how that would be. And building up heroes takes time moreso than using existing heroes (or slapping the old name on a new person for quick interest), and DC is not good at looking at the long run at all. Though I admit, if you run out of money in the short term, the long term doesn't matter.


EDIT: And in reference to the "slice of life" vibe mentioned above - I so miss superheroes having lives outside the heroing and interacting with normal civilians. I like the secret identities for that. I feel like the superhero world has gotten too removed to the ordinary world. Where they're gods living in parallel instead of part of this world, with them just interacting with normal people and doing normal things. Used to, team heroes had their team and solo heroes had civilians, as a general rule. But then some solo heroes are put on teams, and their civilian buds get displaced, even if they can hold a title. If they can't, civilian buddies (and their hometowns and often jobs) get jettisoned with every new title.

[Stanlos]

My thoughts:

1) DC has way too many titles that are Batman oriented and need to realize that Batman & Superman are not their only characters

2) A Justice Society Incarnate team would be better protecting the Multiverse think of the possibilities they are Endless

3)Wildstorm characters could work as a part of the DCU for examples, WildC.A.T.S. would be great competition for Batman Inc. & Wetworks would be an awesome tactical response team for SHADE

4) Justice League Dark should of had a more Vertigo characters appear along with Wetworks as guest stars

5) Get Peter David doing Aquaman again

Yes, yes, and yes. Also, yes. Lastly, YES!

[Felipe Silveira]

The Marvel Universe is bigger and has more perspective for big stories than the DC Universe.
DC needs to make the universe more interesting. When the only big event idea you have is a "Crisis", you're broke. Look at Marvel, look how much new Gillen is creating for the Marvel universe in this A.V.X.

[Agent Z]

The Marvel Universe is bigger and has more perspective for big stories than the DC Universe.
DC needs to make the universe more interesting. When the only big event idea you have is a "Crisis", you're broke. Look at Marvel, look how much new Gillen is creating for the Marvel universe in this A.V.X.

Marvel has been doing the same type of event for decades. They aren't any bigger or containing more perspective than DC.

[Agent Z]

I'm not going to defend Cissie's depiction in Dark Crisis. It will likely be revealed as a fake out or ignored in future books anyway.

That said, Mighty Endowed is a terrible character and fails as an attempt at parody.

[Ascended]

See, I like that idea. A series that balances their personal life alongside their crime fighting. Give it a slight slice of life vibe

Right?

In my head I see this as a manga, which isn't what DC would do, but I bet it'd do really well if they could tag the right demographic.

Thing is they have to figure out how to make them popular enough that people will buy just as many of that book as they would of a Supes or Bat book.

DC needs to figure out how to successfully promote their other heroes, but I don't know how that would be.

I think what you gotta do is use Batman the way DC should have been from the start. You don't sacrifice your less popular products to further prop up your #1 seller. You use your #1 seller to make the less popular ones more popular. You don't do a story where Batman easily defeats, then saves, then preaches at an incompetent Justice League who're incapable of doing anything without his direction. That's not creating new Flash fans, that's proving to readers that they were right to ignore the character. No, you use Batman's popularity to bring readers to Justice League, then impress those fans with how amazing the other Leaguers are, hoping those fans follow the characters to their solo's.

At this point, you have to wean the readers off of Bruce's forty titles per month while you try to hook them on everyone else, so you probably want to cancel one of the lower selling Bat books for a Bat team-up title, like the Brave & the Bold cartoon (but canon, not silly). Include him in big Events, but don't make him crucial to the plot or central to the story. Have him guest star in other solo books. I know we hate that, but if it still brings Bat fans to a title they usually ignore (Does it? Does DC follow the market data for this? They must?) then the chance to grab them is worth it. Just do stuff like that, have Batman show up (not everywhere, not all the time of course) to put eyes on other heroes, then make sure that the other heroes are handled well enough to keep that attention.

I think the effort to "rehabilitate" DC's roster should usually start with the questions of "What's the core appeal and themes here?" and "How do we bring that to the front and build outward?" That's what Geoff Johns did; he dug into the heart of broken characters, found the pieces, and used them to not only streamline what had been, but create exciting new goals and directions from it. DC's roster isn't broken, there's nothing wrong with Superman (despite WB's insistence that he's the problem, not them) or any of the rest. But they *have* often been mismanaged and marginalized for a very long time. A lot of them could benefit from a creative tune-up, even if there's nothing truly "wrong" with them.

A few fan favorite team books like JSA and Titans would be good, but only if those books can take those two questions and use them to do something that is new and different but still feels honest. Reunions, as we were saying, don't work, so it has to be something different, with a clear voice and purpose.

Rebuilding the popularity of DC's non-Bat IP is a long-term effort. You gotta put out that Vixen movie, you gotta give Wonder Woman that cartoon series, and get a Arrow video game going. You gotta put effort and money and top talent on characters who aren't Batman or Bat-adjacent. And you gotta do that without sacrificing Batman's value and worth, too. Deep down, it's not hard. You just have to like your other characters, want to see them done to the best of their potential, and accept that it might take audiences a long time to trust you again, after you spent so many years screwing everyone over to make the Bat look good.

[dietrich]

The new ones aren't even younger, if they have kept Damian Jon and the rest at 10-12, it would be differnt but currently Jon, Yara and Jackson seem all to be older than the YJ4, Wallace, Emiko and Duke seem to be about the same age, and Damian is getting close and currently working with characters that are older than them (Rose and Connor).

I think Irey and Jai that are really drastically younger.

It's a good thing they didn't. It prevents them being treated as a set which ends up problematic.

It allows them to evolve and find slots easier. Jon and jackson have graduated and got big serious roles [inheriting A list mantles] Damian is still working for his dad, Duke is doing his own thing.

They are all on different paths and fans doesn't view them as a collective. Like they do the Titans and the Yj gen

[Jabare]

writers are way too comfortable having Nightwing take major Ls in his own book

[Aahz]

It allows them to evolve and find slots easier. Jon and jackson have graduated and got big serious roles [inheriting A list mantles] Damian is still working for his dad, Duke is doing his own thing.

Imo at least Damian and Jon had their unique slots as pre teens.

Now Jon is essentially competing with Connor and Kara, Jackson is competing with Garth.
For Jon and Jackson that might be currently good since they are not the ones being sidelined, but the whole could have been avoided if they would kept them visibility younger than their counterparts.

And Dukes doesn't even have regular book to appear where he can do his own thing...

[marhawkman]

writers are way too comfortable having Nightwing take major Ls in his own book

Most.... not... make... joke... about....

Hmm.. I 'll just say Nightwing should not fight any Supervillainess near a bed.

Even Livewire thought he was cute and flirted with him!!! LIVEWIRE!!!!!

But more seriously.. the Super-family is more interesting IMO.

[NathanS]

Well, I get why they need to do it and don't blame them in the slightest, the ever-increasing focus on massive Superhero families makes the DCU feel smaller and less varied.

[mathew101281]

Well, I get why they need to do it and don't blame them in the slightest, the ever-increasing focus on massive Superhero families makes the DCU feel smaller and less varied.

They do it because it’s the most effective way of introducing a new character. If a creative team came out with a completely new character with no connection to anything right now, the character would sink quickly. I feel new audiences would accept new characters. But the comic-book industry right now is essentially driven by older fans. The kind of fans who aren’t really interested in new characters.

[NathanS]

They do it because it’s the most effective way of introducing a new character. If a creative team came out with a completely new character with no connection to anything right now, the character would sink quickly. I feel new audiences would accept new characters. But the comic-book industry right now is essentially driven by older fans. The kind of fans who aren’t really interested in new characters.

That is what I was referring to yes. I felt it didn't need to be spelled out for the millionth time when I said "I get why they do it and don't blame them in the slightest." But thanks for the condsention!

[skyvolt2000]

writers are way too comfortable having Nightwing take major Ls in his own book

Black Panther just STARES......

When every Bat female in Gotham line up to tell Nightwing what a loser he is like they do in Wakanda to T'Challa-Dick has nothing to worry about. Not even Ric Grayson.

I would say too many FANS accept that. Same with Peter Parker-you can't keep buying the books that keep them taking Ls.