When he says in part that its her humanity that completes him. That suggests to me his appreciation and love for humanity isn't complete until he meets her. That was always my interpretation of part of the meaning in that.
You know now I can't recall the exact source. It was recent, I now just can't recall if it was Rucka or Bendis....
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-10-2019 at 12:37 PM.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El
This. This was exactly my main point here. I have to clarify, I'm a Lois Lane fan. She is essential to Superman's story in general and has been from the start, IMO, and I DON'T want her to be removed at all. That would be very wrong. She is his main love interest like it or not. I just HATE when writers and directors tell me that Clark/Superman breaks apart without Lois. That's a huge disservice to the character. My Superman is stronger than that. He can mourn like any of us, but he knows people die.
Last edited by stargazer01; 09-10-2019 at 12:38 PM.
I think we're on the same page as far as stripping him of his Earth based elements and cast is wrong altogether. And yeah Brainiac and Zod and co all interact with him on Earth as well.
But him battling Brainiac in space I don't think needs a deeper explanation than him primarily being known as a Superman villain, so who else would he usually be fighting? He was introduced because Superman has a cosmic side. Meanwhile, he battles Lex Luthor on Earth, but so could Batman or Wonder Woman.
Completes him as a person isn't the same thing as the creation of his love for humanity. Meaning he doesn't view the character of Superman as some do gooding monk or paternal figure for humanity. He obviously appreciates and loves humanity, but Lois is the embodiment of that. If his general love and appreciation of what humanity can be obviously predates Lois. She's just the distillation of that and his love for her is the manifestation of it. It's a macro/micro level thing.
If that's the true meaning then I have no particular qualms with that statement then. Again at a base level I never had an issue with it on the grounds that I have an issue with the other statements in question because he's not trying to shift anything, he believes the partnership is the one true key and I respect that. Displaying their relationship as a partnership, as something that's conducive to inspiration both ways and the like, that's more than fine with me.
Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-10-2019 at 12:45 PM.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El
While I like all the fantastic elements in Superman, they work best in contrast to the Earth-based reality. A story that's all inside the Phantom Zone is good, but a story where Quex-Ul is freed from the Phantom Zone, loses his powers and memories, takes on the identity of Charlie Kweskill and holds a desk job at the Daily Planet is even better.
I don't think that is a controversial opinion that Injustice is a disservice to Superman. It obviously is and isn't meant to be a good portrayal of Superman. And acknowledging that those type of stories are bad - Injustice and Kingdom Come aren't good Superman stories, they are stories where Superman does the wrong thing many many times over - doesn't require diminishing Lois' role.
I like Cyborg being on the JL and dread the day nostalgia fans get their way and force him back into the dumpster fire that is the Titans franchise these days.
Also the Titans are pretty useless because no one knows what to do with them. “We’re a family” is not a strong enough mission statement. Nightwing and Wally West are the only two Titans I care about.
Too much soap opera can also be a retraction though. It can drown the book in minor characters plot lines to the detriment of the main character. That’s what happened to the Superbooks at the end of the 20th century.
Personally, I enjoy both types of stories: Cosmic and Earth based.
Superman having an adventure away from Earth in deep space sounds awesome if written well with the proper danger, action and drama.
And when he is protecting Earth and interacting with his human friends and other friends and family is also great if the story is good. I like both, because they offer new points of view and new and exotic places to learn and wonder about. This is why I also love Star Trek.
Yoda said,Maybe not controversial here but in other forums it can be. Especially people who love Injustice Superman because they think he's finally cool.. and people who worship everything Zack Snyder says. He said something about Superman needing Lois more than he needs her... it shows in his movies.I don't think that is a controversial opinion that Injustice is a disservice to Superman. It obviously is and isn't meant to be a good portrayal of Superman. And acknowledging that those type of stories are bad - Injustice and Kingdom Come aren't good Superman stories, they are stories where Superman does the wrong thing many many times over - doesn't require diminishing Lois' role.
Last edited by stargazer01; 09-10-2019 at 12:57 PM.
Oh yeah forgot my nuclear hot take: The Kents are better off dead. The Kents are in fact perfect people the way casuals strawman Superman as so I don’t know why on Earth people want them around in the modern day. If Superman’s best stories involve “dealing with things he can’t just punch” (which is funny given his best selling story is just him and Doomsday beating each other to death), how the hell can those stories contain any drama when Superman can just go see wise ol’ Pa and Ma and get the answer for the right course to take? They’re better off dead where they can provide inspiring flashbacks without having a 30 something year old hero running back to Ma and Pa to cry and eat pie because Lex called him a slur.
As cute as they were as characters post-Crisis, the coolest thing either character ever did that was anywhere close to the inspiring, touching ways they are written in remembrance in Clark's mind when they're gone, was when Jonathan saved Clark's soul before Reign. And Jonathan was categorically dead to achieve that, ironically.
"They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El
I like Pa to die soon in Clark's career as Superman. Ma can be alive much longer until she meets her grandchild. The Kents are important when Clark is young and learning to be careful with his powers. They raise him and teach him great values. After that, I don't mind Ma being alive because it provides nice and heartfelt family memories and moments. Even Superman needs a family to talk to and have quality time.
This is that Snyder quote. So in context it's a little more nuanced than that and not that far off from what I'm saying.
I don't find Snyder to be the most careful or clear on expressing his thoughts, nor do I agree with his POV on a lot of stuff. But I think what he's trying to say is that in universe Lois Lane is an independent person. And the fact that Clark sees that and finds it attractive makes him a better person generally. Meaning, someone who appreciates those traits is a smarter, better, cooler person. The "Clark needs her more" bit I read as going towards the needs of the stories. Admittedly, it's a muddled thought all around."She [Lois] doesn’t need Superman or Clark, the fact that Clark likes her makes him smarter, cooler, better! The more badass Lois is, the better Clark gets. They are an amazing duo who needs each other, but Clark needs her more. You need Lois for a better story."