Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[marhawkman]

Maybe the word you're looking for is a-hole? Maybe Mandy is just an a-hole. Being a bad friend doesn't make you a bad person does it?

I haven't read the book

well, the question is "WHY?". "Why are you a bad friend?" In Mandy's case.... the incident with Claire was a result of Mandy having a control freak moment and going nuclear over Claire doing the same thing Claire does every day.... and trying to force Claire to well... stop being Claire. More specifically, Claire's habit of taking selfies for literally everything. Mandy freaked out about it because when Mandy invited Claire to study at Starfire's house... Claire's daily selfie regimen included Starfire and the Teen Titans. Not because Claire even went looking for them.... they just happened to be in the room.... like all of the living room, and just kinda hanging out with Starfire. and Mandy lost her mind over the fact that Claire isn't into Mandy's shtick of acting like she hates Starfire.

[Alpha]

So she might very well be an a-hole (again, I haven't read it) but that's not how I decide if they are the villain.

[SuperX]

The two can definitely be merged into one. He starts out acting like the 90s but then becomes more depressed in the 2000s, and then he becomes an adult and works on himself to the point that he gets back some of the swagger while still being down to earth.

The problem comes from all the different takes of him starting him out differently, like the Reign movie and YJ show have very different starting points, different personalities, different powers, different everything... Besides name and DNA donor. You can't make a overall origin and bio /history for a character if every version is so radically different.

This isn't the same for superman, he will always be jor and Lara kid sent to earth, and found by the kents,powers and personalities are pretty much in lock step with every showing in and out of comics appearances, it's the opposite for Conner.

Most characters are done atleast genericly the same across the board, Conner Kent is not

[Alpha]

Powers are the same. Only one that changes is the flight. And the origin is always the same, clone of Superman and almost always of Lex Luthor.

So again, only his personality changes and even that is based on how old he is.

[SuperX]

Powers are the same. Only one that changes is the flight. And the origin is always the same, clone of Superman and almost always of Lex Luthor.

So again, only his personality changes and even that is based on how old he is.

Every origin

Changes HOW he gets out of his pod
Changes his personality, or how he sees the world
Changes the amount of programming they give him
Changes his look, from top to bottom
Changes his powers (YJ has super senses besides x ray, and Reign has flight and heat vision, but "seems" to not have any super senses. Then there is Smallville and Titans, which give him all the kryptonian powers, minus flight. Only his original 90s origin(not including the new 52, thst was a clone of Jon) had him start with TTK, and only Smallville season 11 let him actually have TK powers.
Changes his love interests
Changes his intelligence (Titans gives him epigentic memory, which makes him a "built in" genius)
Changes his eye color
Changes his S barcode tattoo
Changes his friends
Changes his relationship with superman

I can probably go, either way you get my point

[Ascended]

I don't know if I agree with the idea that different versions of IP damage their brand. I think that's true in some cases, where the variations are so extreme you're dealing with totally different characters/concepts on a basic level, and not just different details. But on the whole, I think it's actually a strength. You can have a successful Batman in something dark and mature, like the Nolan films, and also have a successful Batman in something more kid-friendly, like a Brave and the Bold cartoon. Despite all the changes between the adaptations, both are recognizable as Batman and both will appeal to different demos, making for a Bat brand capable of engaging more consumers.

But there's a difference between brand recognition and brand elasticity.

[Alpha]

Every origin

Changes HOW he gets out of his pod
Changes his personality, or how he sees the world
Changes the amount of programming they give him
Changes his look, from top to bottom
Changes his powers (YJ has super senses besides x ray, and Reign has flight and heat vision, but "seems" to not have any super senses. Then there is Smallville and Titans, which give him all the kryptonian powers, minus flight. Only his original 90s origin(not including the new 52, thst was a clone of Jon) had him start with TTK, and only Smallville season 11 let him actually have TK powers.
Changes his love interests
Changes his intelligence (Titans gives him epigentic memory, which makes him a "built in" genius)
Changes his eye color
Changes his S barcode tattoo
Changes his friends
Changes his relationship with superman

I can probably go, either way you get my point

Almost all those things are minor details comparable to:

Did Pa Kent die before Clark left Smallville?

Was Lex Luthor a teenage friend of Clark's that grew bitter or was he an industry baron that Clark met as a reporter?

Did Ma Kent make the super suit or is it kryptonian?

Did he meet the Legion of Superheroes who told him about his future when he was a teenager?

What exactly is the fortress of solitude (compare the movies to the cartoons).

How close are Jimmy and Superman?

Did Clark have any friends growing up or was he a loser the whole time?

Did he get to play football like he dreamed of or did he miss out on every experience in life?

How old was Clark when he came to earth, was he an infant or was he a toddler?

Is Clark Kent a goofy clumsy dork or just a quiet and boring guy?

How smart is Superman?

Does he tinker with technology and explore the universe?

[SuperX]

I don't know if I agree with the idea that different versions of IP damage their brand. I think that's true in some cases, where the variations are so extreme you're dealing with totally different characters/concepts on a basic level, and not just different details. But on the whole, I think it's actually a strength. You can have a successful Batman in something dark and mature, like the Nolan films, and also have a successful Batman in something more kid-friendly, like a Brave and the Bold cartoon. Despite all the changes between the adaptations, both are recognizable as Batman and both will appeal to different demos, making for a Bat brand capable of engaging more consumers.

But there's a difference between brand recognition and brand elasticity.

The differences between batmen are tone and slight differences thst still alow for him to be easily noticed as the same character, none of us can say thst about kon

[SuperX]

Almost all those things are minor details comparable to:

Did Pa Kent die before Clark left Smallville?

Was Lex Luthor a teenage friend of Clark's that grew bitter or was he an industry baron that Clark met as a reporter?

Did Ma Kent make the super suit or is it kryptonian?

Did he meet the Legion of Superheroes who told him about his future when he was a teenager?

What exactly is the fortress of solitude (compare the movies to the cartoons).

How close are Jimmy and Superman?

Did Clark have any friends growing up or was he a loser the whole time?

Did he get to play football like he dreamed of or did he miss out on every experience in life?

How old was Clark when he came to earth, was he an infant or was he a toddler?

Is Clark Kent a goofy clumsy dork or just a quiet and boring guy?

How smart is Superman?

Does he tinker with technology and explore the universe?

Not true, most of those things you wrote are past tense, not present tense, which is most of the things that I wrote above. By the time we get to know about most of the stuff you wrote superman was already who he is and how he is, unlike Conner, where all that stuff actully dictates exaclty who he is.

[Alpha]

Not true, most of those things you wrote are past tense, not present tense, which is most of the things that I wrote above. By the time we get to know about most of the stuff you wrote superman was already who he is and how he is, unlike Conner, where all that stuff actully dictates exaclty who he is.

His eye color? How he got out of the pod? His programing at birth? His look? His tattoo? His supersenses? None of these things define who he is in the present. There's no need to worry about them.

The only thing that really matters is that there are two distinct personalities being promoted, but they can easily be merged into different periods of him growing up.

[marhawkman]

So she might very well be an a-hole (again, I haven't read it) but that's not how I decide if they are the villain.

well, one way to look at it is story roles. Who is the source of conflict in the story? for a large chunk of the story... it's Mandy.

[SuperX]

His eye color? How he got out of the pod? His programing at birth? His look? His tattoo? His supersenses? None of these things define who he is in the present. There's no need to worry about them.

The only thing that really matters is that there are two distinct personalities being promoted, but they can easily be merged into different periods of him growing up.

If you really think that stuff(and more)doesn't help define him now, as his story is ongoing and not yet fully realized like supermans, than you seem yo be someone who just likes to argue.

How then would you make sense of all these divergent pieces of who kon is then?

[Alpha]

If you really think that stuff(and more)doesn't help define him now, as his story is ongoing and not yet fully realized like supermans, than you seem yo be someone who just likes to argue.

How then would you make sense of all these divergent pieces of who kon is then?

Look man, I get that you care about these things, but they really are minor details. Should he have a cohesive personality and look? Yes. But again, there's no reason for thess stories not to just maintain the idea that he changed over time

[Restingvoice]

Every origin

Changes HOW he gets out of his pod
Changes his personality, or how he sees the world
Changes the amount of programming they give him
Changes his look, from top to bottom
Changes his powers (YJ has super senses besides x ray, and Reign has flight and heat vision, but "seems" to not have any super senses. Then there is Smallville and Titans, which give him all the kryptonian powers, minus flight. Only his original 90s origin(not including the new 52, thst was a clone of Jon) had him start with TTK, and only Smallville season 11 let him actually have TK powers.
Changes his love interests
Changes his intelligence (Titans gives him epigentic memory, which makes him a "built in" genius)
Changes his eye color
Changes his S barcode tattoo
Changes his friends
Changes his relationship with superman

I can probably go, either way you get my point

As a casual I'm gonna pull back and say that the most important thing about Conner is the common thread that exist in almost every version
1. He's a clone
2. He has tactile telekinesis alongside standard Super power (I assume every version has this)
3. He's in a team of young heroes
Those are the three that are the most important. Then we cover the details.

The first conflicting thing that stood up for me is his appearance, personality, and the Robin he's associated with.
1. The punk one with Tim Drake
2. The calmer, casual, and shirtless a lot with Dick Grayson (Jason didn't stay long enough to be associated with him)
There's the casually dressed one in comic that is associated with Tim Drake, but I don't know the number who like that version compared to the 2 numbered above, because the first one has a grip on 90s fan while the second one on the TV watcher

That's my casual POV. The first thing that needs to be reconciled is his appearance and personality... or maybe not... because these days the casually dressed Superboy is associated more with Dick Grayson's group and they exist outside comic so we don't need to think much about that maybe.

So my next question would be, is the Bendis version with punk appearance but no longer mid-teen is accepted by comic readers? If so, then appearance-wise, just continue on from there.

[marhawkman]

Look man, I get that you care about these things, but they really are minor details. Should he have a cohesive personality and look? Yes. But again, there's no reason for thess stories not to just maintain the idea that he changed over time

"minor"? how minor is the way you look? In-universe there's a story and lore behind the design of Superman's costume. Sure, whatever he wears as Clark Kent is.. well just regular everyday clothes and makes sense to change a lot. but overall visual character design shouldn't change without reason because it makes the character unrecognizable for out-of-universe reasons.