Page 116 of 332 FirstFirst ... 1666106112113114115116117118119120126166216 ... LastLast
Results 1,726 to 1,740 of 4968
  1. #1726
    Ultimate Member sifighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    10,395

    Default

    I think the other problem in that regard is that if you reboot, go all the way. I remember in the New 52 constant back in forth if the Death of Superman story involving Doomsday had even happened in the new 52 continuity, let alone the history of the Teen Titans. This was only made more confusing by the idea that certain big events in Batman and Green Lanterns history remained untouched leaving us with uncertainty of the events that had transpired.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  2. #1727
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I think the other problem in that regard is that if you reboot, go all the way. I remember in the New 52 constant back in forth if the Death of Superman story involving Doomsday had even happened in the new 52 continuity, let alone the history of the Teen Titans. This was only made more confusing by the idea that certain big events in Batman and Green Lanterns history remained untouched leaving us with uncertainty of the events that had transpired.
    Same problem Crisis had.

  3. #1728
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Lala Land
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    With Grayson, well, I just don't see it. He strikes me as very comfortable in that he wouldn't react strangely to a man flirting with him, but I just can't say he's interested. His thing for redheads means it'd be him and Wally or Roy, too, and while one is still alive, he's still way too in love with Linda and the notion of getting his kids back to move on.
    That's the thing about making Dick Grayson bi-sexual, you'd kind of need someone to reciprocate. If it isn't either Wally or Roy, it might have to be Bruce or Jason. Or a new guy. Previously established characters create new problems and wrinkles and changes in dynamics. A new character would be harder for people to care about, especially when so many fans are already in the Barbara or Kori camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ropeburn View Post
    It's crazy of DC fans to be okay with constant reboots. How many times do you have to read about the JSA, Titans, Earth-3 villains, Wonder Woman's Gods, Clark Kent's Identity, How Batman first met insert character, Legion of Super-heroes, etc coming back differently only to be rebooted again and again? This stops DC from moving forward and your continued support allows them to regurgitate the same stories over and over with lesser writers.

    I've been a fan of DC since the early 80's. I've seen Crises galore, Zero Hour, Flashpoint, Nu52, Convergence, etc. These revamps don't last a decade before they do it all over again. It's very tiring.
    Under a decade is ridiculous, but a reboot every 15-20 years could be natural and beneficial in many ways. Keeping up with advances in society and technology is important. And by that time, you'd have new fans and new talent bringing new life to iconic character. Older fans won't have to suffer through more than 2 or 3 reboots in their lifetime.

  4. #1729
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,177

    Default

    The problems with most DC reboots are...

    1. Some of the creators seem clueless about why people like some characters. That’s how you get revamped characters that loose all of their popularity almost over night.
    2. Some revamped characters seem built for one creative team to tell one particular story rather then as the first story in a new continuity. That leaves new creative teams scrambling to figure out where to take the story after that first creative team leaves.
    3. They don’t do straight reboots. Some characters get to keep their history and others don’t. Which breaks the internal logic of the world.

  5. #1730
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    alright I'll say it, Dick Grayson should be bisexual *braces self while whispering*..be gentle...
    I've never really gotten that vibe from him
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nonetheless):
    DC: Currently figuring that out
    Marvel: Read above
    Image: Killadelphia, Nightmare Blog
    Other: The Antagonist, Something is Killing the Children, Avatar: TLAB
    Manga: My Hero Academia, MHA: Vigilanties, Soul Eater: the Perfect Edition, Berserk, Hunter X Hunter, Witch Hat Atelier, Kaiju No. 8

  6. #1731
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    9,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    The problems with most DC reboots are...

    1. Some of the creators seem clueless about why people like some characters. That’s how you get revamped characters that loose all of their popularity almost over night.
    See Nu52 Lobo.
    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    2. Some revamped characters seem built for one creative team to tell one particular story rather then as the first story in a new continuity. That leaves new creative teams scrambling to figure out where to take the story after that first creative team leaves.
    See Wonder Woman
    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    3. They don’t do straight reboots. Some characters get to keep their history and others don’t. Which breaks the internal logic of the world.
    YUP!

    An outstanding post mathew101281!

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    alright I'll say it, Dick Grayson should be bisexual *braces self while whispering*..be gentle...
    I struggle with this for two reasons.
    1. I've been a Grayson/Batgirl-shipper since they shared a feature in The Batman Family title (when she was still older than him).
    2. I grew up with the spectre of Batman and Robin suggesting an "unnatural" relationship casting a shadow over comics. It would piss me off to see somebody dig that old corpse up.


    Any other Robin, but not Grayson.
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 02-09-2020 at 05:57 PM.

  7. #1732
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,278

    Default

    I see it as very bad policy in general to change the sexuality of well established characters like Dick Grayson. If people want more gay/bi-sexual/whatever characters, someone should put in the work in creating ones that are worthwhile instead of upending characters that have been straight for 80 years.

    By the way, there ARE people who actually do put in that work. For those looking for something like that, your best bet is probably webcomics. DC and Marvel comics will probably just end up frustrating you, because their fans generally aren't interested in that. I don't believe that is a fault or anything. They are just interested in what they are interested in.

    I know Alex Woolfson has The Young Protectors, which is really successful. I took a look at it and wasn't too impressed, but I'm clearly not the target audience. I do, however, really admire what he's done and has achieved.

    Also, for what it's worth, Veronica gandini, who colors the current outsiders book, works on the young protectors, too. So if you like her work you can find her there.
    Last edited by Vampire Savior; 02-09-2020 at 04:08 PM.

  8. #1733
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Brooklyn's WiFi
    Posts
    5,214

    Default

    despite comic book IP's being the current media zeitgeist, actual mainstream comic book storytelling (especially and very pointedly DC) is largely still several years, if not decades, behind pretty much every other major storytelling medium; novel literature, manga, television, and movies. all of their comics may not be falling short of other mediums but, when you look at their wider media adaptations, the fact that so many characters are expanded on and handled so much better outside the page than on the pages they originated, it's indicative of the failings of major mainstream comic book storytelling culture.
    THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki

    also, check out "The Signal Tape" a Duke Thomas fan project.

    currently following:
    • DC: Red Hood: The Hill
    • Marvel: TBD
    • Manga (Shonen/Seinen): One Piece, My Hero, Dandadan, Jujutsu Kaisen, Kaiju No. 8, Reincarnation of The Veteran Soldier, Oblivion Rouge, ORDEAL, The Breaker: Eternal Force

    "power does not corrupt, power always reveals."

  9. #1734
    Incredible Member thefinalguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Home with everyone else
    Posts
    610

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    despite comic book IP's being the current media zeitgeist, actual mainstream comic book storytelling (especially and very pointedly DC) is largely still several years, if not decades, behind pretty much every other major storytelling medium; novel literature, manga, television, and movies. all of their comics may not be falling short of other mediums but, when you look at their wider media adaptations, the fact that so many characters are expanded on and handled so much better outside the page than on the pages they originated, it's indicative of the failings of major mainstream comic book storytelling culture.
    Yeah, I 100% agree with this. This is why I, sometimes, enjoy a good shift in how certain characters are presented. Very hard to break in new, diverse stories and characters to the same extent as characters who've had decades of recognition.
    Not to say that there shouldn't be an effort to bringing in those new perspectives but, DC seems to refuse to fully do so.

  10. #1735
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,547

    Default

    Sometimes, absolutely. For me it depends on the character, how deeply their love life has influenced their history, how many love interests they've had and/or how consistent their love life has been, etc etc.

    New characters struggle to catch on in this medium regardless of any other considerations, so some race/religion/sexuality bending of established characters is a necessary evil. Otherwise we'll be waiting forever to get where we need to be. I mean, how many new characters truly catch on? What was the last new character at DC to really take off and prove to have some staying power? Kate Kane, back in 2005 or 2006? But it requires a real careful, light touch, or you run the risk of pandering, which helps no one.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  11. #1736
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    despite comic book IP's being the current media zeitgeist, actual mainstream comic book storytelling (especially and very pointedly DC) is largely still several years, if not decades, behind pretty much every other major storytelling medium; novel literature, manga, television, and movies. all of their comics may not be falling short of other mediums but, when you look at their wider media adaptations, the fact that so many characters are expanded on and handled so much better outside the page than on the pages they originated, it's indicative of the failings of major mainstream comic book storytelling culture.
    Most of mainstream comics' problems have to do with not being able to reach new readers. The average comic fan is probably a 45 year old (white) man who has been reading since the 1980s. That's not really an evil thing, but that type of person is likely set in their ways and just wants to see what they want to see the way they want to see it, so it becomes difficult to really advance things. What's more is that since the audience isn't growing, the companies are having to squeeze every bit of juice out of those fans that they do have with "shocking" events one after the other, which, ultimately, aren't good at all for storytelling and create an even higher barrier of entry for new fans. It's a really tough situation and I don't know if DC and Marvel Comics will ever really get out of that. Likely, what will happen if there is some revolution in comics, it will come from elsewhere (probably online somehow, with crowdfunding, webcomics, and so on). DC and Marvel will still be around I'm sure, and their IPs will always likely be successful, but I dunno' what will happen with their comics, especially if the Direct Market goes down.

  12. #1737
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    New characters struggle to catch on in this medium regardless of any other considerations, so some race/religion/sexuality bending of established characters is a necessary evil.
    That is a problem unique mostly to DC and Marvel Comics. I think if one is going to work on that issue, they would need to address it at the root, which is confronting exactly why new characters struggle to catch on and doing something about that. Racebending, sexuality-bending (or whatever that would be called) is just a shortcut that ultimately won't solve anything and will create a slew of its own problems (like fierce in-fighting each other over rather sensitive and personal issues, hugely conflicting portrayals of characters, and so on).

    And if DC can't address its shortcomings, again, I would just admonish people to go where they will get content they will like. For this particular subject, I would strongly suggest they go elsewhere, because I know of many other comics that do this much better than DC, and that work at a pretty high level of craftmanship. But, really, I don't care how DC does as a business. I know some people here do (probably most). I'm more so about people getting satisfying content they're looking for, wherever that may be.

  13. #1738
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    New characters struggle to catch on in this medium regardless of any other considerations, so some race/religion/sexuality bending of established characters is a necessary evil.
    That is a problem unique mostly to DC and Marvel Comics. I think if one is going to work on that issue, they would need to address it at the root, which is confronting exactly why new characters struggle to catch on and doing something about that. Racebending, sexuality-bending (or whatever that would be called) is just a shortcut that ultimately won't solve anything and will create a slew of its own problems (like fiercely dividing fanbases over rather sensitive and personal issues, hugely conflicting portrayals of characters, and so on).

    And if DC can't address its shortcomings, again, I would just admonish people to go where they will get content they will like. For this particular subject, I would strongly suggest they go elsewhere, because I know of many other comics that do this much better than DC, and that work at a pretty high level of craftmanship. But, really, I don't care how DC does as a business. I know some people here do (probably most). I'm more so about people getting satisfying content they're looking for, wherever that may be.

  14. #1739
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    4,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    despite comic book IP's being the current media zeitgeist, actual mainstream comic book storytelling (especially and very pointedly DC) is largely still several years, if not decades, behind pretty much every other major storytelling medium; novel literature, manga, television, and movies. all of their comics may not be falling short of other mediums but, when you look at their wider media adaptations, the fact that so many characters are expanded on and handled so much better outside the page than on the pages they originated, it's indicative of the failings of major mainstream comic book storytelling culture.
    This is part of the reason why I like outside media, you can do a lot more at a much faster pace.
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nonetheless):
    DC: Currently figuring that out
    Marvel: Read above
    Image: Killadelphia, Nightmare Blog
    Other: The Antagonist, Something is Killing the Children, Avatar: TLAB
    Manga: My Hero Academia, MHA: Vigilanties, Soul Eater: the Perfect Edition, Berserk, Hunter X Hunter, Witch Hat Atelier, Kaiju No. 8

  15. #1740
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    115,055

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    That's the thing about making Dick Grayson bi-sexual, you'd kind of need someone to reciprocate. If it isn't either Wally or Roy, it might have to be Bruce or Jason. Or a new guy. Previously established characters create new problems and wrinkles and changes in dynamics. A new character would be harder for people to care about, especially when so many fans are already in the Barbara or Kori camp.
    It's kind of the same issue Catwoman has had. They established her as bisexual a few years ago but her relationship with Batman has become so over-emphasized that you'd probably be forgiven for forgetting it's a part of her character.

    I think DC tries a little too hard to push Harley and Ivy as this OTP but I guess that's what you have to do sometimes to emphasize a characters queerness.
    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    despite comic book IP's being the current media zeitgeist, actual mainstream comic book storytelling (especially and very pointedly DC) is largely still several years, if not decades, behind pretty much every other major storytelling medium; novel literature, manga, television, and movies. all of their comics may not be falling short of other mediums but, when you look at their wider media adaptations, the fact that so many characters are expanded on and handled so much better outside the page than on the pages they originated, it's indicative of the failings of major mainstream comic book storytelling culture.
    At the same time I think comics have been able to approach themselves in a way they couldn't have in those medium that have helped them thrive to the point where they could reach successes in outside media.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •