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  1. #3961
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    if it happened it happened, period. find a better angle, be creative, thats their job. if you wanna write whatever, do original work, but these shared characters in a shared universe means you are sharing continuity. in the times we live in now, with all the information we have, there is no excuse that there shouldn't be consistency. cherrypicking what established events you think matters and doesn't matter isn't goodstorytelling, and doing it in service of reaching backwards to emulate older stories is regressive and pathetically hack imo. if they can't figure it out then they need to leave it for someone competent and work on a character or a book they have more of an affinity for. they aren't the first ones to write these characters (typically) and they won't be the last (usually), writers need to act like it. these characters ALWAYS work best when they build off what's established. that's what makes extreme long-form storytelling work; which is what comics has become now.
    Yeah no we can deal without stuff like Hal being a pedophile. There are stories that are just mistakes and need to be hard retconned or, yes, straight up ignored. Or Extrano being a bigot's idea of what a gay character is.

    I'm all about building on previous history and continuity but there are so many downright awful stories that should not be held sacred.

  2. #3962
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    Justice League and Justice League Unlimited should get new seasons.
    If Young Justice can do it, then so can they.
    Justice League got five seasons plus a current continuation in the comics. Young Justice got cancelled and was brought back because its story was incomplete.

  3. #3963
    Astonishing Member TheRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    Plus a fandom as vocal as the Young Justice one.
    The fandom can be vocal when it wants to be.

  4. #3964
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Yeah no we can deal without stuff like Hal being a pedophile.
    the funny thing with that Arisia story is that it's this weird stuff that's like wait.... how many people in this universe can do math? Since when does the GL corps have minors as GLs? The story has a weird bit in it about how Arisia's planet has a much shorter year than Earth.... but.... what does any of that have to do with how/why the ring chose her? Also it's not really clear exactly what age someone from Graxos 4 actually should be in order to be considered an adult. Arisia argues that she should be... and the main evidence against... is that in Earth years she's only 14.... she's not really drawn to look like a 14-year old though.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/File:Gree..._Vol_1_201.jpg
    At any rate, Arisia became the GL of her sector.... then she developed a massive crush on Hal... who didn't reciprocate until AFTER Arisia used her GL ring to artificially age herself... because she wanted Hal to.... yeah.... the whole thing was Arisia's idea.

  5. #3965
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Since when does the GL corps have minors as GLs?
    My brain immediately went to Green Lantern Beyond. And why not have kid GLs or even dog GLs? We have a cat reddie after all. The green rings only seek out courage, honestly, and discipline, not whatever a given culture considers maturity.



    And I think that's cool. These characters are meant to be wish fulfillment for kids in a way, right? If anything, maybe we should have more kid super-heroes off on the sidelines, not fewer.



    Err, none of which is meant to comment on the Arisia controversy specifically! My opinion on that matter is, it's probably best forgotten!
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  6. #3966
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    if it happened it happened, period. if a writer can't spin it, they're bad at their job. it's that simple. "but what if this, but what if that" doesn't matter, it happened, it's canon, deal with it. internal logic > pandering to your nostalgia.

    here's another hot take: maybe there are so many mediocre comic book writers because comics fans set such a low standard of storytelling. too many of comic fans are too content with characterizations or story beats that pander to regressive storytelling instead of anything that moves these characters and stories forward.
    Largely agree, but skyvolt has a point about this sort of thing coming from editorial/management (and who knows where else) as well.

    Which just means that the entire employee pool needs higher standards.

    Now, I always support forward motion. Better to build on what has come before and advance the overall narrative than rewind the clock and tell an old story over again. But at the same time that advancement needs to be slow and incremental; this is serialized storytelling that needs to endure for decades so you can't get too far ahead too fast.

    I figure you just tell every possible story you can think of with a given status quo before advancing things another step. Just as an example, if Jon Kent is ten years old, then you tell all the stories you can with that before you age him up (I'm not against Jon being older, I just think they rushed it too early). Of course, that'd apply to Lois being pregnant and Jon being a baby, a toddler, etc., too.

    Agent Z and the Major have points too, that some newer (and not so new) developments were themselves radical departures from what came before. In some cases it's just a bad story or a bad direction, and those can be ignored (the hero had a bad day and acted contrary to normal) or rectified as needed (Lincoln March really *isn't* Batman's brother, he's just a lying liar). Other stuff has endured longer. Consider the changes in Superman's characterization between pre- and post-Crisis; the idea that "Clark is who he is" was the kind of departure lemonpeace is talking about, but that was damn near forty years ago and Clark has largely been written with that mindset ever since. Like it or not, that's who Superman is now. Write it that way. If you want to get away from that, and write the kind of tension in Superman's duality he had back in the Silver-Bronze Ages.....you can get him back there, but do it as a slow, organic shift in his personality, taking the time to do it right and build on the last four decades. Don't just retcon it away.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  7. #3967
    Fantastic Member TheCasualReader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    the funny thing with that Arisia story is that it's this weird stuff that's like wait.... how many people in this universe can do math? Since when does the GL corps have minors as GLs? The story has a weird bit in it about how Arisia's planet has a much shorter year than Earth.... but.... what does any of that have to do with how/why the ring chose her? Also it's not really clear exactly what age someone from Graxos 4 actually should be in order to be considered an adult. Arisia argues that she should be... and the main evidence against... is that in Earth years she's only 14.... she's not really drawn to look like a 14-year old though.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/File:Gree..._Vol_1_201.jpg
    At any rate, Arisia became the GL of her sector.... then she developed a massive crush on Hal... who didn't reciprocate until AFTER Arisia used her GL ring to artificially age herself... because she wanted Hal to.... yeah.... the whole thing was Arisia's idea.
    (I remembered reading about the whole thing in a Cracked article and I found another article on cbr: https://www.cbr.com/things-that-turn...an-and-arisia/)

    That's not how Arisia initially looks: she starts out looking more like a fourteen year old.
    627890243_orig.jpg

    The change to the more revealing costume comes when she's made into the love interest; probably to visually lend credibility to the "She's not really a minor" thing.

    "I'm fourteen by Earth standards, but Graxos IV circles its sun twice as often as Earth! That makes me twenty-eight, really!"

    However, the conversation with Hal after she unintentionally uses the ring to age herself up as well as dialogue between other Lanterns implies that she wasn't actually twenty-eight in terms of development.

    "It was subconcious. Of course -- I didn't order my ring to make me grow up! (...) Please don't patronize me, Hal! I know you mean well, but I'm not half your age anymore! My mind matured just like my body!"

    "But that's significant! She says she's mentally mature as well as physically, but she missed all the experiences of growing through the change! She didn't live her teenage year day-by-dizzy-day!"

    "Everybody knows you're too good for that-- and they all know how hard you fought me off when I was a child!" (Arisia only started to flirt with him when she was "twenty-eight")

    Basically, Arisia claims that she's really twenty-eight year but everyone, human and alien, seems to consider her a teenager until she uses the ring to rapidly age herself, even after she's aged herself up. So, really, it seems like her emotional, physical and mental development at twenty-eight alien years was equivalent to that of a fourteen-year old human.

    Honestly, the whole thing kinda comes off as another example of comics creeping on underaged girls because instead of just having Arisia grown up into a mature adult (or not making her the love interest), they have the whole thing between her and Hal Jordan, her artificially aging herself up blah bla blah. There's all this excuses and technicalities and ambiguity. Seriously, that seems to be how the Lanterns pretty much brush it off: oh, it's love. She's a Lantern. Just forget the technicalities.
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    Last edited by TheCasualReader; 12-04-2021 at 03:55 PM.

  8. #3968

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    I think DC could really benefit by using Crime Crusader
    ...who the hell is Crime Crusader?

  9. #3969

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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    My problem is that Earth 2 seems to be the DCU's ghetto where properties go to die or fade away. Multiverse notwithstanding, the main DCU Earth seems to be where DC wants to concentrate.
    I've been arguing this for years, that the multiverse is just a ghetto for continuities and characters whoever is in charge at DC at any moment does not want to use. Fans are just too in love with the multiverse to notice that's what DC does with it.

  10. #3970

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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    DC should start actively killing off characters that I don't like.
    Hi, Mr. Didio, now that you're teaching at the Kubert school, does the saying "Those that can't do, teach" take on a particularly cruel irony for you now?

  11. #3971
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    ...who the hell is Crime Crusader?
    The GCD lists a character by that name who appeared in a couple of issues of Cannonball Comics back in 1945 (published by a company called "Rural Home"). Don't know if that's who he's referring to.


  12. #3972

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post

    Dark Knight: Metal was the worst thing that D.C. has ever done. I still am in shock that they pulled the trigger on "Lets just make Everyone BATMAN" it made me sad.
    It should have been different characters... like dark earth 1 can be batman who laughs, but then have an evil wonder woman, and evil flash... but also just some where the villains won... so like Luther or joker or deathstroke...
    In the real world i would be BOTH pro registration and Pro mutant rights. Xavier and Trask were both right.

  13. #3973

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Well, let's see... it only makes sense if Batman was studying something both of them know...... which is... chi-focusing meditation? Batman isn't a magic user. Zatanna isn't a martial artist... what would they be studying together?

    the idea that they'd met while Bruce was travelling and studying abroad is... plausible enough. But you need a lot of explanation for how that can lead to them being romantically involved. There needs to be more than "Batman used Bat-charm". Is there? I dunno....all I've seen felt like weird retcons that just... didn't fit.
    I like the cartoon from the 90's

    her father was a stage performer and trained bruce in escape artistry and slide of hand.
    In the real world i would be BOTH pro registration and Pro mutant rights. Xavier and Trask were both right.

  14. #3974
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    The pre-Crisis continuity is more stable than the modern day continuity. Defeating the purpose of COIE.
    Fact multiverse has returned automatically defeated the purpose of Crisis lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    I also believe this is true, though as someone who wasn't there prior to 1986, I can only judge based on The Vibes of old books, and not actual memories.
    Whenever I check out those older comics, I can see continuity was simpler to keep up with since "life changing events" were rare, the stories were largely episodic.

    There were plot holes around, like when exactly Supes' background story became separated from Kal-L's, and the harder you look the bigger the plot holes, but ultimately, because it was so episodic, it didn't hurt as much.

    It also helps that back then, despite the superdickery in covers, there were less gimmicks for the sake of cheap drama, status quo wasn't shaked that much.

    So yeah, the way I see it, continuity was easier to handle, but when we got to bronze age and stories were allowed to be developed more, we had editors and writers bothering more often to keep track of what was going on, something we don't have much nowadays, unless the writer is like Ewing who respects continuity to use it well.

    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    DC should start actively killing off characters that I don't like.
    DiDio, is that you? .

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    I'm not sure how Justice League Unlimited vs. the Fatal Five did from a financial standpoint, but I think it was mostly received as an "okay" movie. We might need more of DTVs like those, and ones with a better reception, if we are to get new seasons. Plus a fandom as vocal as the Young Justice one.
    Part of the reason YJ's fandom was so vocal is that the story wasn't over in season 2, it ended in a massive cliffhanger even, while JLU had mostly satisfying endings, so there's less reason to ask for a revival.

    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    the funny thing with that Arisia story is that it's this weird stuff that's like wait.... how many people in this universe can do math? Since when does the GL corps have minors as GLs? The story has a weird bit in it about how Arisia's planet has a much shorter year than Earth.... but.... what does any of that have to do with how/why the ring chose her? Also it's not really clear exactly what age someone from Graxos 4 actually should be in order to be considered an adult. Arisia argues that she should be... and the main evidence against... is that in Earth years she's only 14.... she's not really drawn to look like a 14-year old though.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/File:Gree..._Vol_1_201.jpg
    At any rate, Arisia became the GL of her sector.... then she developed a massive crush on Hal... who didn't reciprocate until AFTER Arisia used her GL ring to artificially age herself... because she wanted Hal to.... yeah.... the whole thing was Arisia's idea.
    I think the whole thing with Arisia had a writer not knowing she was underage and having Hal hit on her, which once that cleared up, they had to retcon stuf... At least that's what I remember hearing.

  15. #3975
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    The fandom can be vocal when it wants to be.
    I haven't seen enough people rally behind JLU specifically (the fandom is very vocal about it's love for BTAS). On his podcast last year, Michael Rosenbaum had George Newbern, Phil LaMarr, Susan Eisenberg, Maria Canals, and Carl Lumbly (basically everyone except Kevin Conroy, who was on a separate episode) all on together, and they performed a new Justice League scene that he wrote. I didn't see tons of fans talking about and sharing that enough to the point that it was trending.

    Maybe I'm just bad with social media, but even the #JLReunion stuff that gets tweeted by people like Susan Eisenberg never seems to gain a ton of traction.

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