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  1. #361
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Bruce shoulda killed Joker after Death in the Family

    Jason shoulda been the last Robin (not that Tim or Damian shouldn’t exist, just that they never shoulda been “Robin”)
    Then Bruce's character would be broken. He would go off the deep end and never come back. It kinda flies in the face of what Batman is.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by josai21 View Post
    I disagree.

    I think we are reaching an over saturation point with the iconic heroes and the only way to grow storytelling is to let those characters move on. Soon, all the possible good stories that can be told with these characters at their current age will have been told. DC writers are simply rehashing old stories with the illusion of being new.

    If DC/Marvel want to last another 50 years as comic books they have to grow and change.
    I don't buy the idea that pushing aside the most iconic characters will allow DC to last 50 more years. If anything, it'll do the opposite.

  3. #363
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    I don't buy the idea that pushing aside the most iconic characters will allow DC to last 50 more years. If anything, it'll do the opposite.
    Agreed. Really, only intense fans are interested in newer characters. Very often, more casual fans prefer known characters and ignore newer ones. Most everyone I know in real life only know icons and have no interest in anyone else. While its nice to think Marvel/DC cater directly to old fans, they really are primarily interested in money.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    I don't buy the idea that pushing aside the most iconic characters will allow DC to last 50 more years. If anything, it'll do the opposite.
    It should be clarified that I'm not arguing you kill them off right now.

    I'm saying you let them grow old. You phase them out over time. Naturally.

    It's not about old fans/casual fans. It's about entertainment. It's about telling quality stories.

    DC stories are low quality because they are stagnant. Stagancy eventually kills.

  5. #365
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Then Bruce's character would be broken. He would go off the deep end and never come back. It kinda flies in the face of what Batman is.
    It might, but I’ve always felt Bruce should be willing to cross some lines when people specifically target/hurt his kids or partners.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I'd disagree on the basis that his irrational hatred of character's is affecting buisness. Theres also his incredible lack of PR savvy.
    No comment. But when you throw death threats and nasty insults to the guy over people who don't exist. Then that's a huge problem.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I cant relate.

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  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by josai21 View Post
    It should be clarified that I'm not arguing you kill them off right now.

    I'm saying you let them grow old. You phase them out over time. Naturally.

    It's not about old fans/casual fans. It's about entertainment. It's about telling quality stories.

    DC stories are low quality because they are stagnant. Stagancy eventually kills.
    I get the feeling there's a one-way street here. I can understand all of that sentiment and see why readers would feel that way. But if I try to explain why the publishers don't do that--because of economic reasons, etc.--that answer isn't heard. It's like I'm the teacher in a Peanuts cartoon.
    Th-th-th-that's all folks!

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I get the feeling there's a one-way street here. I can understand all of that sentiment and see why readers would feel that way. But if I try to explain why the publishers don't do that--because of economic reasons, etc.--that answer isn't heard. It's like I'm the teacher in a Peanuts cartoon.
    I hear ya. :P

    I understand the economic reasons and such...but that’s partially why I’m against the decision to keep the stagnancy. Forgive my sentimentality, but story telling shouldn’t be about maintaining a business. It should be about crafting art. When it becomes solely about money, something is lost.

  9. #369
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by josai21 View Post
    It should be clarified that I'm not arguing you kill them off right now.

    I'm saying you let them grow old. You phase them out over time. Naturally.

    It's not about old fans/casual fans. It's about entertainment. It's about telling quality stories.

    DC stories are low quality because they are stagnant. Stagancy eventually kills.
    I’d agree with the sentiment, but DC (and Marvel) aren’t in the industry to tell quality stories. They’re in it to make money. While innovation has a chance of making higher money, it also carries the risk of making no money, and industries want to play it safe. The only way old characters cease to be useful is when they cease to be easy money.

    Batman Beyond is an example of what you want. Bruce aged and Terry was in. A number of Batman villains were allowed a graceful exit. They even tried making a new series with Zeta Force (which I loved). Batman Beyond was great. Terry has yet to completely replace Bruce.

    Known characters are guaranteed money. New ones risk making nothing, and that’s a risk Big corporations don’t like to take. Call me cynical, but that’s how I see it.

    To clarify, I’m not talking about writers and artists, who I do believe want to innovate. I’m taking about the advertising and accounting departments, and the high up suits. They ultimately decide what goes to print because they provide the funding, and that’s money they want back at least fourfold.
    Last edited by SilverWarriorWolf; 01-27-2019 at 06:07 AM.

  10. #370
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Damian should’ve stayed dead after he got killed in Batman Inc.

    John Stewart should be the face of the green lantern franchise.

    DC should just go ahead and give Wonder Woman that per tiger she was originally going to have in the movie. It would be a lot cooler than the Kangaroo she used to have.
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  11. #371
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Damian should’ve stayed dead after he got killed in Batman Inc.

    John Stewart should be the face of the green lantern franchise.

    DC should just go ahead and give Wonder Woman that per tiger she was originally going to have in the movie. It would be a lot cooler than the Kangaroo she used to have.
    Agreed on the John Stewart front, though I’d also like Kyle. Maybe make it a team series?

    Why stop at a tiger?

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  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Then Bruce's character would be broken. He would go off the deep end and never come back. It kinda flies in the face of what Batman is.
    If that was all it took to make Bruce go off the deep end, then his character is a sham and he really is as twisted as the villains he fights.

  13. #373
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If that was all it took to make Bruce go off the deep end, then his character is a sham and he really is as twisted as the villains he fights.
    How is it a sham?
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  14. #374
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If that was all it took to make Bruce go off the deep end, then his character is a sham and he really is as twisted as the villains he fights.
    Being afraid to cross the line because he's afraid he won't be able to stop is a documented character flaw of Bruce's, so I don't see how he's a "sham" or as twisted as the villains who have no problem bumping innocent people by the truckloads.

    And it's not as if the ostensibly more stable vigilantes and cops in Gotham, not to mention the rest of the superhero community, is in any rush to kill the Joker either. So everyone's a sham.

  15. #375
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBatman View Post
    I don't buy the idea that pushing aside the most iconic characters will allow DC to last 50 more years. If anything, it'll do the opposite.
    Agreed.

    Look at all the comic book companies with brand new characters... that amount to nothing. Even Image after 20 years has only Spawn that's CLOSE to a household name. Valiant, Malibu, any of the others... they have nothing. Characters like the Phantom and Zorro have tried the 'Heroes age and get replaced by legacies...' and amount to... nothing. Phantom and Zorro have their fans... but it's nothing compared to the likes of Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent. And they've even had a head start on the DC Iconics…

    Dick Grayson and Maybe Wally West are the only legacy characters that even have any meat on their bones. nobody else seems able to hold down a book for more than a couple years. People want Dick's generation to take over... but then every time you turn around the Titans are canceld again....

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