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  1. #766
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    Controversial opinion: I can enjoy Superman as a character, but I don't find him aspirational, nor do I understand why I'm supposed to. He's a comic book character, not a household god.
    You cant understand someone who never gives up, never gives in and tries to always do the right thing even if it inconveniences him ?

  2. #767
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    Controversial opinion: I can enjoy Superman as a character, but I don't find him aspirational, nor do I understand why I'm supposed to. He's a comic book character, not a household god.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcW_EaNJQSo&t=13569s

    3:05 to about 3:07 in this video kind of explains it for me at least.

  3. #768
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    Controversial opinion: I can enjoy Superman as a character, but I don't find him aspirational, nor do I understand why I'm supposed to. He's a comic book character, not a household god.
    I feel the same way about 'Sports stars and celebrities.'

    The difference is that Superman is imaginary enough that he SHOULD be inspirational. Comic book 'heroes' by their nature should represent everything we could be and everything we should want to be in a glorious black vs. white world. No concerns about about doping scandals, sex scandals, political aspirations that drag down the 'real world' people that so many look up to.

  4. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I feel the same way about 'Sports stars and celebrities.'

    The difference is that Superman is imaginary enough that he SHOULD be inspirational. Comic book 'heroes' by their nature should represent everything we could be and everything we should want to be in a glorious black vs. white world. No concerns about about doping scandals, sex scandals, political aspirations that drag down the 'real world' people that so many look up to.
    Controversial opinion/counter: No they shouldn't. Because the world isn't black and white. Not all the time at least and there is nothing glorious about an entirely black and white world. You cannot aspire to be something that has no basis in reality and if superheroes are to be inspirational then they have to reflect the real world to some extent. After all, if you don't find anything relatable or real about Superman, what is there in him to aspire to?

  5. #770
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Controversial opinion/counter: No they shouldn't. Because the world isn't black and white. Not all the time at least and there is nothing glorious about an entirely black and white world. You cannot aspire to be something that has no basis in reality and if superheroes are to be inspirational then they have to reflect the real world to some extent. After all, if you don't find anything relatable or real about Superman, what is there in him to aspire to?
    I don't relate to Wonder Woman at all but I find her to be someone I would aspire to be like. Simple ideals like empathy and love for your fellow man are ingrained in her character. Goodness in it's many forms are more than enough to be a symbol to look up to.

    I don't have to relate to something to care about it or learn a lesson from it.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  6. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I don't relate to Wonder Woman at all but I find her to be someone I would aspire to be like. Simple ideals like empathy and love for your fellow man are ingrained in her character. Goodness in it's many forms are more than enough to be a symbol to look up to.

    I don't have to relate to something to care about it or learn a lesson from it.
    Empathy and love for your fellow man are things taught in real life. They aren't lessons found exclusively in comic books. The lessons taught in them are written by real people for real people to read.

  7. #772
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Empathy and love for your fellow man are things taught in real life. They aren't lessons found exclusively in comic books. The lessons taught in them are written by real people for real people to read.
    Yeah, that's not in question.

    All things we are taught come from real life.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  8. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Yeah, that's not in question.

    All things we are taught come from real life.
    Yeah that's my point. Which is why I don't buy into the idea that superheroes shouldn't include some things from the real world.

  9. #774
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Yeah that's my point. Which is why I don't buy into the idea that superheroes shouldn't include some things from the real world.
    Superheroes including things from the real world wasn't in question.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  10. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Superheroes including things from the real world wasn't in question.
    From phantom1592

    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I feel the same way about 'Sports stars and celebrities.'

    The difference is that Superman is imaginary enough that he SHOULD be inspirational. Comic book 'heroes' by their nature should represent everything we could be and everything we should want to be in a glorious black vs. white world. No concerns about about doping scandals, sex scandals, political aspirations that drag down the 'real world' people that so many look up to.

  11. #776
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    From phantom1592
    I wasn't replying to that. I was replying to you saying "After all, if you don't find anything relatable or real about Superman, what is there in him to aspire to?"

    To which I give you an example where relatability or realism doesn't matter when finding something to aspire to. I don't need to be the same skin color, gender, class, etc. to find a belief/character to be inspiring.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  12. #777
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    I stand by my statements.

    When people learned how to be overcome adversity and become a champion from Lance Armstrong and how to be a kind hearted family man from Bill Cosby... it's dangerous and stupid to set mere humans as heroes and inspirational goals. Every time you turn on the tv or open a browser someone, somewhere is letting you down.

    Superman and Wonder Woman... Should be the best they can be. They should exemplify the morals and the goals and they don't do anything so... wrong unless a writer and an editor let them. The question was 'why should I look up to fictional characters?'

    That's my answer

  13. #778
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I stand by my statements.

    When people learned how to be overcome adversity and become a champion from Lance Armstrong and how to be a kind hearted family man from Bill Cosby... it's dangerous and stupid to set mere humans as heroes and inspirational goals. Every time you turn on the tv or open a browser someone, somewhere is letting you down.

    Superman and Wonder Woman... Should be the best they can be. They should exemplify the morals and the goals and they don't do anything so... wrong unless a writer and an editor let them. The question was 'why should I look up to fictional characters?'

    That's my answer
    Very well said.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  14. #779
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I feel the same way about 'Sports stars and celebrities.'

    The difference is that Superman is imaginary enough that he SHOULD be inspirational. Comic book 'heroes' by their nature should represent everything we could be and everything we should want to be in a glorious black vs. white world. No concerns about about doping scandals, sex scandals, political aspirations that drag down the 'real world' people that so many look up to.
    Except that making Superman so inspirational and aspirational makes him feel suspect to this generation. Scandals about our heroes didn't come out,Scandals about to days heroes do come out. It is easier to get someone today to believe in alien that is get someone to believe that person has no major flaws or skeletons. We see all of our heroes the Lance Armstongs,The Bill cosbies , The Hollywood dream couples be flawed that someone like Superman feels fake and you wonder what is his character defect or skeleton in his closet.Someone with no issues today is red flag. This generation knows even the best people have flaws.This generation knows there is a cost/price to doing the right thing with no comprises.

    Trying to build Superman like in the past is recipe for failure in some ways. If Superman is aspirational but spending all his time saving people is effecting his family life and he is a little bit of bad father and husband is more believable than superman where you see no flaws. It is weird if you hear a celebrity couple is arguing you actually believe the couple is real. This generation doesn't believe in fantasy of perfect, so almost perfect works better
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 03-02-2019 at 02:29 AM.

  15. #780
    Incredible Member SilverWarriorWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Except that making Superman so inspirational and aspirational makes him feel suspect to this generation. Scandals about our heroes didn't come out,Scandals about to days heroes do come out. It is easier to get someone today to believe in alien that is get someone to believe that person has no major flaws or skeletons. We see all of our heroes the Lance Armstongs,The Bill cosbies , The Hollywood dream couples be flawed that someone like Superman feels fake and you wonder what is his character defect or skeleton in his closet.Someone with no issues today is red flag. This generation knows even the best people have flaws.This generation knows there is a cost/price to doing the right thing with no comprises.

    Trying to build Superman like in the past is recipe for failure in some ways. If Superman is aspirational but spending all his time saving people is effecting his family life and he is a little bit of bad father and husband is more believable than superman where you see no flaws. It is weird if you hear a celebrity couple is arguing you actually believe the couple is real. This generation doesn't believe in fantasy of perfect, so almost perfect works better
    That is a rather cynical way of seeing things.

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