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  1. #3181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I disagree that it's analogous. Numbers were meant to reused and were generic and the same numbers were used by all teams (generally). It was not a name or any sort of unique identifier. Numbers being retired is the exception, not the rule. Which was not the case for code names back then.
    Somebody put on the same uniform he did all the way down to the number (which nobody else was wearing), and went out to do the same job that he had always done. That's not "doing his own thing"

    One year Yankees outfielder #3 was Babe Ruth, the next year Yankees outfielder #3 was George Selkirk. One year Barry Allen was the Flash, the next year Wally West was the Flash. It's the same situation.

  2. #3182
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    I'm starting to get Devin Grayson vibes from this Nightwing run and it's concerning. I don't know why I let DC get my hopes up with the character only to rip my heart out
    The J-man

  3. #3183
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    I'm starting to get Devin Grayson vibes from this Nightwing run and it's concerning. I don't know why I let DC get my hopes up with the character only to rip my heart out
    Taylor said on Twitter that his inspiration for the Bat family dynamic is Devin Grayson

  4. #3184
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Taylor said on Twitter that his inspiration for the Bat family dynamic is Devin Grayson
    The J-man

  5. #3185
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    I tried to get into Grayson's run on Nightwing, but really couldn't, which is surprising to hear that Taylor has said that she's an inspiration considering how much I'm enjoying his run so far. I know this has been said ad nauseum, but it really does remind me more of Fraction's Hawkeye and a little bit of classic Spidey. It's kind of weird that I never realized that this is the Nightwing book I've wanted since, well, ever.
    "Overturn everything! Can't he just write an executive order that says: 'Everything Trump did is now overturned. F**k that guy.' signed, Joe Biden."

  6. #3186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post
    I'm starting to get Devin Grayson vibes from this Nightwing run and it's concerning. I don't know why I let DC get my hopes up with the character only to rip my heart out
    Isn't she the writer that worked with Phil Jimenez on JLA/TITANS? If so, why is her vibe negative? What I miss?

  7. #3187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Isn't she the writer that worked with Phil Jimenez on JLA/TITANS? If so, why is her vibe negative? What I miss?
    Because of her Run on Nightwing.
    She did the Story Arc with Blockbusters Death (and the death of most of Dick's supporting cast from Dixon's run) and the infamous "incident" with Tarantula.

    Starting from that the Nightwing Series became really crappy imo, and it didn't got back on track untill Thomasi took over 4 years later.

  8. #3188
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Found the tweet.
    "Thanks, Devin!
    Hope you know just how much your work on the Batfam has meant to our team.
    So much of how I think about Nightwing comes from how @Gothamette wrote the Batfamily, especially in the brilliant Gotham Knights"
    https://twitter.com/TomTaylorMade/st...20802810732549

  9. #3189
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Isn't she the writer that worked with Phil Jimenez on JLA/TITANS? If so, why is her vibe negative? What I miss?

    "JLA/Titans" is usually not the first story that comes to mind with her. People remember her for that Titans run, her Nightwing and Huntress story and then most notably her Nightwing run. Most longtime Nightwing fans hold Devin Grayson's name in infamy.

    Her Nightwing run started with a lot of promise. One of the better artistic teams the Nightwing title ever had up till that point. I was digging her run in the beginning. She introduced some new villains that had promise. She leaned more into a Daredevil-type story arc later on, but still kept him Dick until she crash-landed the run in the last few issues. Now it wasn't a perfect run early on either, she had a few random storylines like that arc about Dick's grandfather, etc. but otherwise, it was going pretty well early on.

    That said she put Grayson through the wringer and fumbled the landing completely with Blockbuster and Tarantula. I'm gonna spare you the rant, and the rape debate but as Aahz said it set the title and character back years. Then Bludhaven got nuked. Dan Didio tried to kill off Nightwing, but thanks to some intrepid fans holding his luggage hostage at the airport Richard's life was saved. They killed Superboy instead but I digress.

    Fortunately, for Nightwing Peter Tomasi and Grant Morrison started writing Dick well. Peter Tomasi's Nightwing run built him back up like an A-lister and set him up for Battle for the Cowl. Then Morrison and other writers started writing Dick as Batman. Some writers didn't do a great job and made him more like Bruce but the better writers like Morrison still wrote him as Dick and did a pretty good job.


    Then the New 52 happened and the Nightwing series has been kind of up and down. He got killed for a second, became a spiral agent, back to Nightwing. Amnesia and here we are now.

    But to answer your question, many readers consider Devin Grayson to be one of the most destructive writers to Nightwing's character from the Tarantula incident and subsequent fallout. Dick took a big L after that story arc and it took years to wipe that stink off.


    tl;dr- Devin Grayson had a potentially all time great Nigthwing run at the time, then she Game of Thrones the ending. Her run was widely panned by Nightwing fans in the 00s and today.
    Last edited by Jabare; 06-16-2021 at 01:57 PM.
    The J-man

  10. #3190
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    She is also a fan who turned pro, there are rumors that she changed her last name to match Dick Grayson but like many fans who ended up writing their favorite character, she ended up doing more harm than good to her favorite character (also see Geoff Johns and Barry Allen).

    I mostly remember her for her Gotham Knights work and some of her Titans work.

  11. #3191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Because of her Run on Nightwing.
    She did the Story Arc with Blockbusters Death (and the death of most of Dick's supporting cast from Dixon's run) and the infamous "incident" with Tarantula.

    Starting from that the Nightwing Series became really crappy imo, and it didn't got back on track untill Thomasi took over 4 years later.
    Ooooooooooooh ooooh the Tarantula story!!!

    Heracles' hocks! I blocked that from my mind entirely! I remember now.

    Well, that is one misstep in an otherwise underrated body of work. I would love to see her with Titans again or with a run on BIRDS

  12. #3192
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    I'll pass on that
    The J-man

  13. #3193

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    Supposedly she ret-conned Dick's ethnicity in part because DC wouldn't let her ret-con his sexual orientation to match her fanfiction or head-canon. Even if that's not true, the interview she did ten years after her run in which she revealed her thought process on both making him a Romani AND how she viewed his romantic life showed that she did almost no research on either. Her approach to the Romani ret-con was based almost entirely on stereotypes, and how she thought/approached Dick's love life went completely against how he'd been depicted as a boyfriend/lover before.

  14. #3194
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    George Selkirk was the new number 3 (and outfielder) for the Yankees. It's roughly analogous with Wally becoming the Flash. His number wasn't retired until 1948
    That would only be analogous if the players, fans announcers and merchandise only referred to the players as their number. If random announcers or fans were running up to #3 and expecting to get 'the Babe's' signature. They don't wear the full masks and only identify themselves by their numbers... so the metaphor kind of falls apart there. But in comics their identities, trademarks, etc are a lot tougher to get around, and 'usually,' their identities aren't public knowledge. All they have to go by is 'Flash, Spider-man, Captain America'... and all the baggage that comes along with it.

  15. #3195
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timber Wolf-By-Night View Post
    Supposedly she ret-conned Dick's ethnicity in part because DC wouldn't let her ret-con his sexual orientation to match her fanfiction or head-canon. Even if that's not true, the interview she did ten years after her run in which she revealed her thought process on both making him a Romani AND how she viewed his romantic life showed that she did almost no research on either. Her approach to the Romani ret-con was based almost entirely on stereotypes, and how she thought/approached Dick's love life went completely against how he'd been depicted as a boyfriend/lover before.
    TBF both her and Dixon were pushing Dick into being a playa. Then Weisman just cemented it with YJ.

    Even if they haven't read the Devin Grayson stuff, try convivning anyone who has been following Nightwing for the last 20 years that he isn't a playa and a dedicated monogamist.
    Last edited by John Venus; 06-16-2021 at 05:40 PM.

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