Page 235 of 332 FirstFirst ... 135185225231232233234235236237238239245285 ... LastLast
Results 3,511 to 3,525 of 4968
  1. #3511
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33,941

    Default

    I'd have just done Elseworld's tales about the Titans of myth origin.

  2. #3512
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    9,574

    Default

    Okay so if don't like mortals on Themyscira before Steve then make her an Amazon but the power granted by Titans
    Revenge or something
    So it's like the Hecate clay origin but with Titans

    Honestly though... lol... if I combine everything, she's a clay baby brought to life by the cult of Hecate to overthrow Hyppolita, so the the more radical amazons cast her away, so she's adopted by human, then saved from fire by Diana, brought to Themyscira, and now granted powers by the Titans of myth, but after the Hecate cult found her, since she owes Diana her life and considers Hyppolita family, she left Themyscira and befriends the other sidekicks then formed the Teen Titans

    So her story is going against nature of divine revenge plan

    This way she's also not the first mortal on Paradise Island

    Don't know how the Dark Angel fit into this, but like I said, my eyes glazed since I don't have a reference in my head
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-31-2021 at 12:04 AM.

  3. #3513
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    5,264

    Default

    Donna being adopted by the amazons after a disaster just isn't interesting. It's Steve Trevor's origin except if he was a girl. And it doesn't clearly define what her unique identity and appeal are.

    The idea that while Diana was created to be loved, Donna was created to suffer is a great contrast.

    While Diana was blessed with all the strength of a woman, whereas Donna was given all the insecurities of mankind, and Diana helped her escape this cycle of pain.

    I don't think the idea of Dark Angel being a Donna Troy from another dimension, or Donna being created by Magala to give Diana company are necessary, just the foundational idea that Donna is a woman full of insecurities by destiny itself, but manages to turn them into strength and becomes a heroine.

    If anything the idea that the origin of all these curses is Donna herself from another timestream could be something she finds out years after becoming a hero. It doesn't have to be her origin but it can still be a part of her saga.
    Last edited by Alpha; 07-31-2021 at 12:16 AM.

  4. #3514
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    3,723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Donna being adopted by the amazons after a disaster just isn't interesting. It's Steve Trevor's origin except if he was a girl. And it doesn't clearly define what her unique identity and appeal are.

    The idea that while Diana was created to be loved, Donna was created to suffer is a great contrast.

    While Diana was blessed with all the strength of a woman, whereas Donna was given all the insecurities of mankind, and Diana helped her escape this cycle of pain.

    I don't think the idea of Dark Angel being a Donna Troy from another dimension, or Donna being created by Magala to give Diana company are necessary, just the foundational idea that Donna is a woman full of insecurities by destiny itself, but manages to turn them into strength and becomes a heroine.

    If anything the idea that the origin of all these curses is Donna herself from another timestream could be something she finds out years after becoming a hero. It doesn't have to be her origin but it can still be a part of her saga.
    Sometimes, its better to be simple than interesting. All of Donna's weird identity crises are interesting, but they've damaged her character long term. Besides, having a simple origin doesn't mean a character can't be or become interesting.

  5. #3515
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Trying boiling all of the down to a newbie whose getting into comics. This is the kind of stuff that only people who spent years reading comics. I'm not saying you can't do stories like that but you also need a stable foundation first. Also, Donna being the 'harbringer of the Multiverse' feels too close to Wanda's status as a 'nexus being' although I don't mind Donna having a role and stories that are different from Diana's.
    Yeah, tying the already unstable Donna to something like the Multiverse, the status of which fluctuates wildly itself, seems like a recipe for further disasters.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    If I were tasked with fixing Donna Troy and keeping Diana's Rebirth origin in mind, I would have her as a young girl who was ship wrecked out at sea and rescued by a teenage Diana. She was raised on Paradise Island and raised by Diana until she became a teenager but wanting to know about her adoptive parents, she left the island, knowing that she can't return. A few years later, Diana reunites with Donna Troy and she's already made friends with the Titans but is still searching for her biological family.)
    Yeah this basically what I had in mind for her Rebirth. She was an orphaned infant that ended up on Paradise Island when Diana was around 12-13 and was adopted by Hippolyta. She was present during Year One but was just "off panel," and all they had to do was write a few flashback scenes between her and Diana showing where she was during that portion of the story. She could leave shortly after Diana does to join her as Wonder Girl.

    Bam, done. I don't know why this is so hard for DC. It's not as if there is any high demand for all of Donna's BS to stay in place, I don't get why they can't just bite the bullet and quietly re-set her.

  6. #3516
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    9,574

    Default

    I also don't want Multiverse to be involved in Donna's origin unless that's the only thing she has going for her
    Like how Power Girl is just an alternate universe Supergirl, Donna Troy is just an alternate universe Wonder Girl.
    Simple, to the point.
    Otherwise pick one from the other. Human, Clay, Titans, or Dark Angel.
    My choice is Titans, because Greek myth and Teen Titans.

  7. #3517
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33,941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Donna being adopted by the amazons after a disaster just isn't interesting. It's Steve Trevor's origin except if he was a girl.
    Steve is a guy who discovered the Amazons by accident and fell in love with their princess. Donna became an Amazon by adoption after losing her family. The two aren't remotely the same. Especially since Donna had a better chance of being accepted by the Amazons than Steve. You'd have to completely ignore the different relationships Diana has with both of them to claim they are the same.


    And it doesn't clearly define what her unique identity and appeal are.
    Donna is an example of how any woman can be an Amazon and doesn't need to be born special to earn that.

    The idea that while Diana was created to be loved, Donna was created to suffer is a great contrast.
    Except Donna wasn't "created to suffer". That was a curse placed on her by an external force. Donna's difference is that she was born outside of Themyscira while Diana was not. That gives her a foot in both worlds that other Amazons don't have.

    While Diana was blessed with all the strength of a woman, whereas Donna was given all the insecurities of mankind, and Diana helped her escape this cycle of pain.
    Which doesn't require the "multiple lives nonsense". If anything, that detracts from the idea of Donna being an ordinary woman who overcomes pain and suffering.

  8. #3518
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    5,264

    Default

    Why would Donna be an ordinary girl? That makes much more sense for Cassie Sandsmark. Cassie took the Vanessa Kapatelis route of being a young girl that met Diana and saw her as a superhero, which led her to wanna be just like her. That's why the daughter of Zeus origin sucks for Cassie too. The point of Cassie is that she is like every other teenage girl in Man's world, but Diana's mission on man's world changes how women think about themselves, including inspirong young girls like Cassie to be champions.

  9. #3519
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33,941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Why would Donna be an ordinary girl?
    Why shouldn't she be?


    That makes much more sense for Cassie Sandsmark. Cassie took the Vanessa Kapatelis route of being a young girl that met Diana and saw her as a superhero, which led her to wanna be just like her. That's why the daughter of Zeus origin sucks for Cassie too. The point of Cassie is that she is like every other teenage girl in Man's world, but Diana's mission on man's world changes how women think about themselves, including inspirong young girls like Cassie to be champions.
    Again, Donna's being an ordinary girl that was adopted by the Amazons doesn't interfere with any of this.

  10. #3520
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    3,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Why would Donna be an ordinary girl? That makes much more sense for Cassie Sandsmark. Cassie took the Vanessa Kapatelis route of being a young girl that met Diana and saw her as a superhero, which led her to wanna be just like her. That's why the daughter of Zeus origin sucks for Cassie too. The point of Cassie is that she is like every other teenage girl in Man's world, but Diana's mission on man's world changes how women think about themselves, including inspirong young girls like Cassie to be champions.
    I don't know that I'd give all the credit to Diana. Cassie's own nature matters, too, and I very much want for her to get the credit for wanting to be a hero and pursuing that (I hate the Zeus-dad, too) and not just say "oh, any girl around Diana would want that" like Cassie's own agency or own nature isn't a thing. Indeed, I think the contrast to Vanessa matters, too.

  11. #3521
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    5,264

    Default

    I believe each character in the family should embody a different archetype and theme.

    Donna was always the insecure one that could rise above her fears. And she also started out with the impossible tales from Kanigher. To me the John Byrne idea that Donna was artificially created and lived through all the unhappiness a women could experience in various lives is a cool update of both those themes from the 50s, and again, shows something that Diana should never be but that is important none the less for this theme of femininity and power.

    Cassie embodies this idea that Diana is bringing about a new type of woman, and that's why Cassie should be the example of an ordinary girl in a world post Wonder Woman, a girl that seeks adventure and power and doesn't have to think about what does it mean to be a strong woman, she can just live it out naturally.

    And I don't see what's confusing about my proposition, Donna is the "portrait of Dorian Gray" for Diana. A game between gods led to the creation of Donna Troy so she would live out all the unhappiness that Diana never experienced. She was cursed by time itself. Eventually an epic story about Diana finding out about this and trying to save Donna from the curse of time. Donna has the memories of Diana's happy childhood in Paradise Island, even though she herself never experienced it.

  12. #3522
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Occupied Klendathu
    Posts
    12,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Steve is a guy who discovered the Amazons by accident and fell in love with their princess. Donna became an Amazon by adoption after losing her family. The two aren't remotely the same. Especially since Donna had a better chance of being accepted by the Amazons than Steve. You'd have to completely ignore the different relationships Diana has with both of them to claim they are the same.




    Donna is an example of how any woman can be an Amazon and doesn't need to be born special to earn that.



    Except Donna wasn't "created to suffer". That was a curse placed on her by an external force. Donna's difference is that she was born outside of Themyscira while Diana was not. That gives her a foot in both worlds that other Amazons don't have.



    Which doesn't require the "multiple lives nonsense". If anything, that detracts from the idea of Donna being an ordinary woman who overcomes pain and suffering.
    Yeah, throw me in the camp stuff like these retcon after retcon origins and Dark Angel are mistakes.

  13. #3523
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4,147

    Default

    The adoption thing only works if they are going to honour the dynamics Marston established for Amazon training. Past regimes seem determined to make them less and less for some reason despite what was there expressly from the beginning.

  14. #3524
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    33,941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I believe each character in the family should embody a different archetype and theme.

    Donna was always the insecure one that could rise above her fears... To me the John Byrne idea that Donna was artificially created and lived through all the unhappiness a women could experience in various lives is a cool update of both those themes from the 50s, and again, shows something that Diana should never be but that is important none the less for this theme of femininity and power.
    These feel like two completely separate ideas that have nothing to do with each other.


    And I don't see what's confusing about my proposition, Donna is the "portrait of Dorian Gray" for Diana. A game between gods led to the creation of Donna Troy so she would live out all the unhappiness that Diana never experienced. She was cursed by time itself. Eventually an epic story about Diana finding out about this and trying to save Donna from the curse of time. Donna has the memories of Diana's happy childhood in Paradise Island, even though she herself never experienced it.
    ... I think you have a misunderstanding of what the Portrait of Dorian Gray was about.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-31-2021 at 02:18 PM.

  15. #3525
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    15,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    The adoption thing only works if they are going to honour the dynamics Marston established for Amazon training. Past regimes seem determined to make them less and less for some reason despite what was there expressly from the beginning.
    While I agree that Amazon training should be permanently in place and be how Donna got her powers, I disagree that it is strictly necessary overall outside of my preference. Pre-Crisis she was said to have been somehow given her powers by Paula von Gunther using the Purple Ray on her.

    It wouldn't be worth losing the elegantly simple adoption angle just for that.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •