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  1. #1546
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    In terms of his actual adventures, there really wasn't that much of a difference between a story written in 1984 and 1987.
    You are right. I mean post reboot.

  2. #1547
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaku View Post
    You are right. I mean post reboot.
    1987 WAS post reboot. To give you an example, go back and re-read "Old Ties" in Adventures of Superman #429 where post-Crisis Superman threatens Cat Grant's ex for custody of her son. As in, he goes to his apartment and openly threatens him. All because he liked her. This was a private custody case that had nothing to do with him. He has absolutely no reason to involve himself in it at all. Or "Personal Best" where he reverts to his GA self and starts dangling gangsters off of roofs after Perry White's son is kidnapped. Or lets an ordinary human punch him. Both written by Marv Wolfman. THE biggest writer DC had in the 1980s. Maybe the problem isn't which "version" it is, maybe the problem is the general attitude of that decade. And the ones before it. Maybe things were just more accepted back then that wouldn't be acceptable today. Even if the reboot had taken place two years earlier, you would still run into the same problems. Humans evolve. It's just the nature or society. All we can do is be better in the future.
    Last edited by superduperman; 01-09-2020 at 11:57 AM.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  3. #1548
    Incredible Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I know this might sound a bit crazy, but go with me here. The more I think about it, the more I think that Harry Lampert was thinking of Hermes (aka Mercury) when he designed the Flash--including the strapless helmet with the wings on it. It's a whacky theory and you might all laugh, but I have a hunch that it's true.
    I agree and also said so myself on other boards

  4. #1549
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManhunterfromMars View Post
    Power Girl may be hotter than Supergirl, but Supergirl still is hot and better character
    Factually incorrect, sir. Power Girl is a great character and generally a lot more consistently characterized than Supergirl has been.

  5. #1550
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Factually incorrect, sir. Power Girl is a great character and generally a lot more consistently characterized than Supergirl has been.
    I wonder if that's partially because Power Girl is made to stand out so much from Supergirl and isn't meant to be as integral to the franchise as Kara is so there's less fussing with her (beyond her origin).

  6. #1551
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    Wouldn't mind Earths with no sidekicks.

  7. #1552
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if that's partially because Power Girl is made to stand out so much from Supergirl and isn't meant to be as integral to the franchise as Kara is so there's less fussing with her (beyond her origin).
    That's almost certainly it. There's no corporate impetus to get PG "right" like there is for Supergirl and if they don't hit the desired metrics for sales, they try something very different until the IP blows up or fizzles out. It's why Supergirl has historically changed personalities every, what, five years?

  8. #1553
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    That's almost certainly it. There's no corporate impetus to get PG "right" like there is for Supergirl and if they don't hit the desired metrics for sales, they try something very different until the IP blows up or fizzles out. It's why Supergirl has historically changed personalities every, what, five years?
    I think her personality has been more consistent then that, but DC really seems to want to fiddle with her a lot.

    Why else would they turn her evil every few months?

  9. #1554
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think her personality has been more consistent then that, but DC really seems to want to fiddle with her a lot.

    Why else would they turn her evil every few months?
    Evil, virtuous, upbeat party girl, angry loner, all-American sweetheart, everygirl with a big shadow to get out from, depressed survivor of a doomed world, PG ripoff-- PICK ONE, DC!

    That's my biggest problem with Kara. I like some, don't like others, but they gotta settle on something and lock in. With the TV show, maybe they're finally found their groove, but man it's taken a while!

  10. #1555
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Evil, virtuous, upbeat party girl, angry loner, all-American sweetheart, everygirl with a big shadow to get out from, depressed survivor of a doomed world, PG ripoff-- PICK ONE, DC!

    That's my biggest problem with Kara. I like some, don't like others, but they gotta settle on something and lock in. With the TV show, maybe they're finally found their groove, but man it's taken a while!
    I bolded what I think people generally think of when they think of Supergirl.

    The non-bolded are usually what when DC tries to shake things up with the characters only for fans to reject it, at least from what I've seen. Nobody really likes evil Supergirl any more then they like evil Mary Marvel.

  11. #1556
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I bolded what I think people generally think of when they think of Supergirl.

    The non-bolded are usually what when DC tries to shake things up with the characters only for fans to reject it, at least from what I've seen. Nobody really likes evil Supergirl any more then they like evil Mary Marvel.
    While I agree, it happens too often to discount and the New 52 was too long and recent a departure from the things you bolded to forget either.

  12. #1557
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I bolded what I think people generally think of when they think of Supergirl.

    The non-bolded are usually what when DC tries to shake things up with the characters only for fans to reject it, at least from what I've seen. Nobody really likes evil Supergirl any more then they like evil Mary Marvel.
    Actually, while depressed survivor of a doomed world is certainly an interesting take (though mine would have been "grieving" and not depressed) that I very much enjoy the idea of, it's certainly not one that I, a person only casually interested in Supergirl, generally think of. Seems like it was a later additional to the mythos. At least, in the older ones I read, she didn't seem to be all that upset.

    I do agree on the the turning her evil thing being annoying and rejecting it. But then, I feel that way for every hero, so she's not special to me in that way.

  13. #1558
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    While I agree, it happens too often to discount and the New 52 was too long and recent a departure from the things you bolded to forget either.
    I feel like I need to check out that New 52 run. I'm not for overly-aggressive Kara, but I've heard good things about it.

  14. #1559
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I feel like I need to check out that New 52 run. I'm not for overly-aggressive Kara, but I've heard good things about it.
    Wasn't for me.

    Not my only problem with Supergirl, but I've never liked when DC pushed the idea where she's more powerful than Clark despite him: a) being full Kryptonian just as she is, older and in his prime, larger and with significantly more muscle mass, absorbed far more solar radiation than she has by virtue of being exposed to our sun for over twenty years.

    Outside of some retcon where Kryptonian females process sunlight in a significantly more efficient capacity, I don't see how Kara would be stronger and even then it would take a while to surpass Kal's head start. DC likes to push it from time to time and I've never once bought it because he's always going to be the Kryptonian that it comes down to in any significant event. It feels like lip service, so if she's to be stronger, actually commit or provide a real reason why outside "we need her to not just feel like Superman-lite."

    And she shouldn't be and usually isn't, but powers are not where she will shine. It has to be her character. Same with Jon, for what it's worth.

  15. #1560
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Wasn't for me.

    Not my only problem with Supergirl, but I've never liked when DC pushed the idea where she's more powerful than Clark despite him: a) being full Kryptonian just as she is, older and in his prime, larger and with significantly more muscle mass, absorbed far more solar radiation than she has by virtue of being exposed to our sun for over twenty years.

    Outside of some retcon where Kryptonian females process sunlight in a significantly more efficient capacity, I don't see how Kara would be stronger and even then it would take a while to surpass Kal's head start. DC likes to push it from time to time and I've never once bought it because he's always going to be the Kryptonian that it comes down to in any significant event. It feels like lip service, so if she's to be stronger, actually commit or provide a real reason why outside "we need her to not just feel like Superman-lite."

    And she shouldn't be and usually isn't, but powers are not where she will shine. It has to be her character. Same with Jon, for what it's worth.
    This is why I hate the 'solar battery' idea. With a Passion. Too much focus on trying to explain 'why' his powers are what they are... and all to the detriment of other stories.

    For me, the only real solution... Yellow sun = Powers on. Red Sun = Power off. No building them up over time. Superboy is totally a thing... Super BABY is totally a thing... But you don't have to jump through hoops when you want a full powered Zod or Supergirl who show up decades later. All Kryptonians are full power under Yellow Sun...

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