Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[docmidnite]

I have zero attachment to Superman being the 'first superhero'. He can be the best and most powerful and most inspiring... but I've seen way too many stories with the JSA or flashbacks to ancient Egypt and stuff and the heroes that Hawkman has been.... Max Mercury's from the past...

Clinging to the 'meta' concept of Superman being first, tosses too many other concepts that I love.

Just talking about the 21st century phantom. Wonder Woman back with the JSoA again as the first heroes of the 20th century, etc, are not an issue

[Tzigone]

I have zero attachment to Superman being the 'first superhero'. He can be the best and most powerful and most inspiring... but I've seen way too many stories with the JSA or flashbacks to ancient Egypt and stuff and the heroes that Hawkman has been.... Max Mercury's from the past...

Clinging to the 'meta' concept of Superman being first, tosses too many other concepts that I love.

Probably doesn't hurt that I don't like those. I mean, I like Max teaching Bart, but don't care about his past. Am firmly in the camp of wanting the JSA on another earth and very much prefer silver/bronze age Hawks.

[9th.]

I have zero attachment to Superman being the 'first superhero'. He can be the best and most powerful and most inspiring... but I've seen way too many stories with the JSA or flashbacks to ancient Egypt and stuff and the heroes that Hawkman has been.... Max Mercury's from the past...

Clinging to the 'meta' concept of Superman being first, tosses too many other concepts that I love.

I never got the obsession with it myself, the older heroes might as well not exist if that's the case.

[phantom1592]

Probably doesn't hurt that I don't like those. I mean, I like Max teaching Bart, but don't care about his past. Am firmly in the camp of wanting the JSA on another earth and very much prefer silver/bronze age Hawks.

Well, I prefer the Earth2 team ups as well, with all the JSA in their near-prime as 'different' versions of the classic JLA... but I don't think we'll ever see that again. But even without the JSA/Earth 2... there are plenty of 'past heroes' that prove Superman wasn't 'the first'.


I've always been a big fan of Superboy… and honestly I think he's integral to Clark Kent. One thing Smallville I think demonstrates is The only way the 'Clark Kent' disguise works is if he's using it since he was a kid. He needs to be wearing the glasses as a kid... People shouldn't even be able to picture a Clark kent without glasses. he needs to be disappearing when things get dangerous... The idea that wallflower Clark could actually be Superman should be ridiculous to anyone who knows him... If people can see a picture of Superman and immediately think of high school star quarterback who was faster and stronger than normal people and look at a yearbook with the exact same face... it just falls apart for me. I need young clark using that disguise long before High School ever starts.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I have zero attachment to Superman being the 'first superhero'. He can be the best and most powerful and most inspiring... but I've seen way too many stories with the JSA or flashbacks to ancient Egypt and stuff and the heroes that Hawkman has been.... Max Mercury's from the past...

Clinging to the 'meta' concept of Superman being first, tosses too many other concepts that I love.

Totally agree. I realized how much I hated that overrated detail back when Superman Unchained came out, and I saw a bunch of complaints about how it revealed that Wraith was around before Superman. I just realized how restricting that detail is for the dc universe.
And it. Adds. Nothing.
It doesn’t make Superman a better character. Him being first isn’t what makes him special. All it does is make the dc universe more limited and less interesting.

[Agent Z]

Well, I prefer the Earth2 team ups as well, with all the JSA in their near-prime as 'different' versions of the classic JLA... but I don't think we'll ever see that again. But even without the JSA/Earth 2... there are plenty of 'past heroes' that prove Superman wasn't 'the first'.


I've always been a big fan of SuperboyÂ… and honestly I think he's integral to Clark Kent. One thing Smallville I think demonstrates is The only way the 'Clark Kent' disguise works is if he's using it since he was a kid. He needs to be wearing the glasses as a kid... People shouldn't even be able to picture a Clark kent without glasses. he needs to be disappearing when things get dangerous... The idea that wallflower Clark could actually be Superman should be ridiculous to anyone who knows him... If people can see a picture of Superman and immediately think of high school star quarterback who was faster and stronger than normal people and look at a yearbook with the exact same face... it just falls apart for me. I need young clark using that disguise long before High School ever starts.

The disguise would fall apart the minute someone notices the connection between Clark, Smallville and Superboy.

Never mind Super Baby would be impossible to cover up.

[lemonpeace]

This is probably not an especially controversial "hot take", and i may have already said this before (now that i'm thinking about it) but, I think western comic book storytelling culture could learn a lot from the storytelling culture of manga; particularly the importance and the art of endings. in keeping with the theme of this thread tho, let me get specific to make it a little spicier: One Piece is a perfect example of how much of a disservice comic storytelling culture does it's characters by not challenging their creatives (and by extension their readers) with an endgame. and spicier still, just because you're characters have been in circulation in perpetuity does not make them good, it may make it easier to consider them iconic, but it does not make them in and of themselves good characters. overall, not that spicy but it something i was thinking about, and I wanted to get the thought off.

[jetengine]

Making clark literally the first is pointless because unless you ruthlessly ensure nothing contradicts it you'll always get a writer who countermands it out of narrative reasoning or favouritism. At least in the Golden Age group you can put any OC and just say "They werent super popular"

[phantom1592]

The disguise would fall apart the minute someone notices the connection between Clark, Smallville and Superboy.

Never mind Super Baby would be impossible to cover up.

Not really, I wasn't very sociable in school, but out of my small group I personally know 2-3 people who moved to New York and 2 that moved to Chicago. Those big metropolis' tend to draw a lot of people. No reason to automatically assume that there is a connection.

[phantom1592]

Making clark literally the first is pointless because unless you ruthlessly ensure nothing contradicts it you'll always get a writer who countermands it out of narrative reasoning or favouritism. At least in the Golden Age group you can put any OC and just say "They werent super popular"

Reminds me of the X-Men. I remember that originally they pushed Charles Xavier as one of the very first mutants. His father worked on atomic bombs or something and since Hiroshima and the atomic tests... mutants were starting to appear. Hence the whole 'children of the Atom' concept. Characters like Apocalypse and Wolverine however KIND of screw over that concept completely. You can't proclaim something as the first... then have stuff that happened before them.

[Agent Z]

Not really, I wasn't very sociable in school, but out of my small group I personally know 2-3 people who moved to New York and 2 that moved to Chicago. Those big metropolis' tend to draw a lot of people. No reason to automatically assume that there is a connection.

We are also talking about a guy who looks like Superman, has been said to be friends with Superman and is fairly well known due to being an award-winning journalist. Some fans have even suggested that Perry does know Clark is Superman. There are just too many holes in the secret identity for it to really work.

[jetengine]

Reminds me of the X-Men. I remember that originally they pushed Charles Xavier as one of the very first mutants. His father worked on atomic bombs or something and since Hiroshima and the atomic tests... mutants were starting to appear. Hence the whole 'children of the Atom' concept. Characters like Apocalypse and Wolverine however KIND of screw over that concept completely. You can't proclaim something as the first... then have stuff that happened before them.

Exactly. Hell Apocalypse has a bunch of Victorian mutants ffs. Thats barely a 100 years away from Charles debut.

[docmidnite]

Making clark literally the first is pointless because unless you ruthlessly ensure nothing contradicts it you'll always get a writer who countermands it out of narrative reasoning or favouritism. At least in the Golden Age group you can put any OC and just say "They werent super popular"

I don’t think he should literally be the first, unless they put him back in 1939, but if they went by “first of his century/era” it could work.

For example...

Black/Teth Adam, first hero of Old Kingdom Egypt, Nabu/Dr. Fate, first hero of Middle Kingdom Egypt, Prince Khafu/Hawkman, first hero of New Kingdom Egypt, etc.

[RachelGrey]

Exactly. Hell Apocalypse has a bunch of Victorian mutants ffs. Thats barely a 100 years away from Charles debut.

They have far expanded that now too. Selene > Apocalypse > original Four Horseman > Exodus > Logan > Mystique > Destiny > Magneto > Charles

Destiny is literally the only one who was getting pretty old before she died. Magneto had his lifespan reset at least twice. Mystique's shapechanging makes her near immortal.

There are other mutants that predate Charles too, I just couldn't remember them all.

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But I was just pointing out that these kinds of things accumulate over time as more writers add more historical characters to the timeline or make adjustments. I hope DC isn't going to make the timeline that rigid, it kind of stifles creativity a bit!

[Frontier]

We are also talking about a guy who looks like Superman, has been said to be friends with Superman and is fairly well known due to being an award-winning journalist. Some fans have even suggested that Perry does know Clark is Superman. There are just too many holes in the secret identity for it to really work.

The physical resemblance isn't necesarilly always remarked upon in-universe. Some versions of Clark Kent present a very different physicality compared to Superman.