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  1. #166
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    The majority of people who want Cyborg booted from the Justice League don't like him in the first place. So being worked up over a character where ever he is, is a complete waste. Let him live.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

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  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    The majority of people who want Cyborg booted from the Justice League don't like him in the first place. So being worked up over a character where ever he is, is a complete waste. Let him live.
    I have followed and liked Cyborg since his debut in NTT #1. Nonetheless, he belongs with the Teen Titans, except in stories where the DCU ages its characters up to a point where The TT takeover for The Justice League, unless he can anchor and maintain a solo title, or at least a solo back-up feature that helps him develop a notable repution (or if Warners makes a successful film starring the character).

    Why do I say that? The JL tends to be based on DC's most prominent (both in universe and IRL), and commercially successful superheroes. They generally drift back to a central cast comprised of the characters that can sell comics individually (even if sporadically), because that's the JL's schtick, The World's Greatest Superheroes. Some will say, "it's just the old farts wanting their Superfriends," and there are some for who that's true. But at the end of the day, a title like JL needs characters that most can believe are at the top of the heap, or it's just another team book. Cyborg, simply put, isn't there.

    Outside The JL's Big 10, Black Lightning, Black Canary, Wally (Flash) West, Supergirl, Power Girl, Nightwing, Batgirl, and even Booster Gold all have a better claim on that title to prominence than Cyborg or, for that matter Red Tornado.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I have followed and liked Cyborg since his debut in NTT #1. Nonetheless, he belongs with the Teen Titans, except in stories where the DCU ages its characters up to a point where The TT takeover for The Justice League, unless he can anchor and maintain a solo title, or at least a solo back-up feature that helps him develop a notable repution (or if Warners makes a successful film starring the character).

    Why do I say that? The JL tends to be based on DC's most prominent (both in universe and IRL), and commercially successful superheroes. They generally drift back to a central cast comprised of the characters that can sell comics individually (even if sporadically), because that's the JL's schtick, The World's Greatest Superheroes. Some will say, "it's just the old farts wanting their Superfriends," and there are some for who that's true. But at the end of the day, a title like JL needs characters that most can believe are at the top of the heap, or it's just another team book. Cyborg, simply put, isn't there.

    Outside The JL's Big 10, Black Lightning, Black Canary, Wally (Flash) West, Supergirl, Power Girl, Nightwing, Batgirl, and even Booster Gold all have a better claim on that title to prominence than Cyborg or, for that matter Red Tornado.
    Meh. All your doing is limiting a character you supposedly like. Vic along with his generation of Titans should move on but no fans want them to be stuck in the basement of Father Grayson's house. Anyone can be Justice League material, it shouldn't be some elitist clubhouse.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

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  4. #169
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    It may be controversial opinions, but I don't know how one can determine that a "majority of people who want Cyborg booted from the Justice League don't like him in the first place." That's imposing a controversial opinion onto others.

    Absent of any objective proof, it's hard to say, but I'd guess the people that like Cyborg like him for all that history with the Titans. That's where his roots are. So the retcon into the original JLA was bound to offend two groups--those that like the old line-up of the Titans and those that like the old line-up of the JLA (with lots of overlap between the two groups). I think it's less that people don't like Cyborg than that they just want his history to be respected.

    This doesn't limit the character going forward. I think the most limited Titan is Beast Boy who doesn't get to grow out of the Titans--he's always being retroactively de-aged and put back in the Titans. Most of the original Titans were able to go on to other things. Cyborg can be both in the Titans and the Justice League. It's only Geoff Johns who is limiting the character by making it an either/or question. Yet Cyborg continues to be seen in other media as part of the Titans, so it makes better sense to work with that instead of against it.

    Cyborg has become one of those characters that represents DC screwing around with the timeline and continuity--it puts him in the bullseye. When people complain about him or Wally, they're really complaining about something much larger than that one character. They are the handy reference points--so they always come up in the discussion.
    "We will meet again."

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    It may be controversial opinions, but I don't know how one can determine that a "majority of people who want Cyborg booted from the Justice League don't like him in the first place." That's imposing a controversial opinion onto others.

    Absent of any objective proof, it's hard to say, but I'd guess the people that like Cyborg like him for all that history with the Titans. That's where his roots are. So the retcon into the original JLA was bound to offend two groups--those that like the old line-up of the Titans and those that like the old line-up of the JLA (with lots of overlap between the two groups). I think it's less that people don't like Cyborg than that they just want his history to be respected.

    This doesn't limit the character going forward. I think the most limited Titan is Beast Boy who doesn't get to grow out of the Titans--he's always being retroactively de-aged and put back in the Titans. Most of the original Titans were able to go on to other things. Cyborg can be both in the Titans and the Justice League. It's only Geoff Johns who is limiting the character by making it an either/or question. Yet Cyborg continues to be seen in other media as part of the Titans, so it makes better sense to work with that instead of against it.

    Cyborg has become one of those characters that represents DC screwing around with the timeline and continuity--it puts him in the bullseye. When people complain about him or Wally, they're really complaining about something much larger than that one character. They are the handy reference points--so they always come up in the discussion.
    Excellent post and I completely agree with you.

  6. #171
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    Liking the character's history is different from liking the character himself. This character has been met with extreme hostility, a fictional character. If that doesn't scream dislike then I don't know what does. Having Cyborg strictly be a Titan is very limiting, he's been stuck there since the 80s. That's not progression. Everyone loves to gloat about his history with the Titans, but I've read every run of every Titans books and I fail to see what he gains by having his Titans history restored. Putting him back on the Titans is going backwards. But that's what happens when nostalgia clouds your judgement. No offense, of course.
    Last edited by Raijin; 08-27-2018 at 02:22 PM.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

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  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Suicide Squad has really lost the worry, tension, and danger in the series. To restore that DC should never use B or A list villains in it. You know going in Harley, Deadshot, and Boomerang aren't going to to die and if they do it will only be for a few issues.
    I think most of the current cast are unlikely to die.

    Croc is also a pretty well known Batman villain.

    Katana is one of DCs biggest Asian Charcters, and used a lot in other media.

    Amanda Waller is as iconic for the series as Deadshot and Boomerang.

    And the way enchantress died I wouldn't be surprised if she would return at some point.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    Anyone can be Justice League material, it shouldn't be some elitist clubhouse.
    If you go to far away from that elite status, the League just doesn't feel like the League anymore imo.

    Cyborg in the League could work imo if they would add a few other smaller characters to the team (like in the sattelite era), but in a team just with the big 6, he doesn't fit that well.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    If you go to far away from that elite status, the League just doesn't feel like the League anymore imo.

    Cyborg in the League could work imo if they would add a few other smaller characters to the team (like in the sattelite era), but in a team just with the big 6, he doesn't fit that well.
    So everyone can be an Avenger but only a select few can be a member of the League? You're saying he doesn't fit well simply because you're used to him being stuck on the Titans.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

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  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    So everyone can be an Avenger but only a select few can be a member of the League? You're saying he doesn't fit well simply because you're used to him being stuck on the Titans.
    That's a Marvel problem. If you exist in that universe you get to be an Avenger. What's wrong with earning your way onto the greatest superhero team?
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    That's a Marvel problem. If you exist in that universe you get to be an Avenger. What's wrong with earning your way onto the greatest superhero team?
    If "earning your way" was how it was done, no one would be in the League.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    That's a Marvel problem. If you exist in that universe you get to be an Avenger. What's wrong with earning your way onto the greatest superhero team?
    Uh......why does it have to be earned? It's a superhero team, not a doggy treat or an allowance.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

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  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    Meh. All your doing is limiting a character you supposedly like. Vic along with his generation of Titans should move on but no fans want them to be stuck in the basement of Father Grayson's house. Anyone can be Justice League material, it shouldn't be some elitist clubhouse.
    Being the Elite is the whole point of the JL. It's part of their entire brand. Saying "Anyone can be Justice League material" is like saying anyone that's ever strapped on cleats deserves a spot in The Yankees' dugout. Lots of little leaguers dream of it, but few get there.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Being the Elite is the whole point of the JL. It's part of their entire brand. Saying "Anyone can be Justice League material" is like saying anyone that's ever strapped on cleats deserves a spot in The Yankees' dugout. Lots of little leaguers dream of it, but few get there.
    The Justice League has included the likes of Red Tornado (whose frequent habit of being destroyed is practically a running gag), Hawkman, who's even more useless to the team than Superfriends Aquaman and Green Arrow who I could write an entire essay on what a screw up he is as a human being and a hero and still never scratch the surface.

    What qualifies you for membership of the League has always been a matter of writers and editors wanting you there. There have been far worse choices than Cyborg.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The Justice League has included the likes of Red Tornado (whose frequent habit of being destroyed is practically a running gag), Hawkman, who's even more useless to the team than Superfriends Aquaman and Green Arrow who I could write an entire essay on what a screw up he is as a human being and a hero and still never scratch the surface.

    What qualifies you for membership of the League has always been a matter of writers and editors wanting you there. There have been far worse choices than Cyborg.
    Pretty much this. It's funny how since it's Vic, there needs to be some justification to it. It gets on my nerves.

    I don't agree about the top part because I never believed in a useless superhero. I just think everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.
    Last edited by Raijin; 08-27-2018 at 03:29 PM.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I canít relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

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    Indies: Unnatural, Jeepers Creepers, Project Superpowers, Black Hammer, Ninja-K

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