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  1. #1831
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I mean - there really is no reason that more "[Title] Comics" books can't exist too. Detective exists as a secondary Batman vehicle, Action for Superman - why can't we have Sensation Comics for Wonder Woman, Adventure Comics as a more generalized DC thing, and etc?
    With deep sadness, I reply that they are Brand Neutral. Somehow, Sensation never attached itself to fans and publishers the way Action and Detective did. Some of that is that Detective is the source of DC, and Action opened the money gates.

    None of the anthologies, however, convey a clear, single brand. That's why I have to agree that Robanker's DC Comics Presents... idea is superior.to mine.

  2. #1832
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    I mean - there really is no reason that more "[Title] Comics" books can't exist too. Detective exists as a secondary Batman vehicle, Action for Superman - why can't we have Sensation Comics for Wonder Woman, Adventure Comics as a more generalized DC thing, and etc?
    Because they don’t sell very well. That’s why Sensation was cancelled.

  3. #1833
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    DC Comics Presents...X does work more smoothly for the concept you've got in mind sullenly kicks rock with his toe, "I just really wanted to be able to read Adventure Comics again."
    I am entirely about a relaunch of Adventure Comics!

  4. #1834
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I am entirely about a relaunch of Adventure Comics!
    How about a compromise?

    DC PRESENTS....ADVENTURE COMICS

  5. #1835
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    How about a compromise?

    DC PRESENTS....ADVENTURE COMICS
    DC Comics Presents... Brave and Bold Adventure Comics #1 featuring The Newsboy Legion.

    Make it so.

  6. #1836
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I think part of the problem is that nobody's really sure what the alternative was. They were on the verge of bankruptcy. Some big name characters were on the verge of cancellation. Like WW.
    I'm not sure there was an alternative. But I don't believe they were on the verge of going out of business; Superman, Super Friends and several comics (Legion, New Teen Titans, Swamp Thing) were all doing well. Licensing for Superman was still on the uptick. But Batman was badly broken - they couldn't sell merchandising rights to the character by the mid-1980s.
    Len Wein was told he might have to cancel Detective Comics due to declining sales. I mean...Detective Comics.

    So DC's problem was clear: They didn't have much beyond those few successes. And while it was incredible to see Legion and NTT selling 200-300k copies per month - more than Superman, and near the X-Men / Avengers / Spider-Man range, it was only a few books at that level. Whereas Marvel? Most of their books sold 200-300k per month. Not just the top books. They were selling a universe, and readers bought in. Jim Shooter has said many times the most frequent fan request he got in the 80s was to cancel ROM, because readers were tired of having to buy it - but they felt obligated.

    DC was in real danger of becoming the #3 publisher - to either First Comics, Eclipse or somebody new. So yeah, they had to take steps. That's why all the creators they went after in the late 70s / early 80s came from Marvel - Conway, Englehart, Wolfman, Wein, Miller and eventually Byrne. They were trying to entice a large readership to dip their toe in, however possible.

    It was never fully successful; even Byrne's Superman didn't set the world on fire for years and years, sales-wise. DC didn't benefit from Marvel fatigue until the mid-1990s, when Marvel went through a mid-life Crisis. (no pun intended)

  7. #1837
    Unstoppable Member KC's Avatar
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    I like Wonder Woman as a character but I think she suffers from the fact that she has not had that many great runs and great stories.

  8. #1838
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I like Wonder Woman as a character but I think she suffers from the fact that she has not had that many great runs and great stories.
    Agreed.

    10 characters.
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  9. #1839
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I like Wonder Woman as a character but I think she suffers from the fact that she has not had that many great runs and great stories.
    I LOVE the character, but yeah I have to agree. As an icon and a character, she's far better than her comics.

    You can count the good-great runs on one hand: Marston, Perez, Rucka, Jimenez...that's pretty much it.

  10. #1840
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I LOVE the character, but yeah I have to agree. As an icon and a character, she's far better than her comics.

    You can count the good-great runs on one hand: Marston, Perez, Rucka, Jimenez...that's pretty much it.
    From the perspective of feats and adding to mythology Walt Simonson's run was impressive.

  11. #1841
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    N52 Martian Man hunter was amazing. The proactive, survivor complex, self appointed protector of Earth with his own agenda and level of borderline omnipresense and involvement with planetary level affairs was the most inspired reintroduction for the character possible. He was stripped from being one of the original JL members but was given a role that if followed properly could bring the character new highs.

  12. #1842
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    * The anti-Snyder crowd is full of just as many toxic people as the Snyder Cut crowd.

    * If your objection to Wonder Woman using a sword is phallic symbolism you need to grow up.

    * Actually, the backlash against the sword in general is dumb and just scapegoating for the actual problem.

    * Wonder Woman hasn't had that many stories is a falsehood that is parroted without thinking. Diana has plenty of good stories. What she hasn't had are a consistent supporting cast, personality and powers which while those are problems, are separate from the good stories argument. Especially since the bench mark for good stories these days are more about how often they get adapted.

    * I think the Cyborg article from 2015 raised a few good points but it is ultimately full of too many accentuated negatives and displays a troubling view about masculinity that Cyborg's fans and detractors have parroted without critical thinking. It is also an attitude towards masculinity that certain male fans parrot when it comes to Superman or any of WW's male cast.

    * I'm indifferent to Hal Jordan but have come to see he can exist fine alongside others.

    * Comic love using the creator's original depiction and their opinions selectively. The same people who see Marston as the be all of Wonder Woman would lose their minds if Batman went back to using a gun.

    * Way too many comic fans don't understand what "murder", "fascist" and "mary sue" mean.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-06-2020 at 02:04 AM.

  13. #1843
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    I personally strictly believe that Conner is the better character than Clark and especially Jon.

    Conner
    -is a clone of Clark and Lex which gives him an interesting background (I personally even probably like more the Titans TV Series Conner with higher intelligence and memories of both)
    -he has seen Tana Moon dying
    -he died during IC
    -he has a relationship with Cassie who in ToT is seen as protege of Ares
    -he was once wearing the white lantern ring...

    I think this has more potential than Clark...

    I often imaginated Conner training, becoming kind of obsessed with becoming more powerful...
    dont dividing the world in white and black, so he becoming a member of all Lantern Corps just to become stronger etc.

    I LIKE the Idea of a Superman who isnt just the big blue boy scout, but does what is necessary and probably also has 2 girlfriends etc.

  14. #1844
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I personally strictly believe that Conner is the better character than Clark and especially Jon.

    Conner
    -is a clone of Clark and Lex which gives him an interesting background (I personally even probably like more the Titans TV Series Conner with higher intelligence and memories of both)
    -he has seen Tana Moon dying
    -he died during IC
    -he has a relationship with Cassie who in ToT is seen as protege of Ares
    -he was once wearing the white lantern ring...

    I think this has more potential than Clark...

    I often imaginated Conner training, becoming kind of obsessed with becoming more powerful...
    dont dividing the world in white and black, so he becoming a member of all Lantern Corps just to become stronger etc.

    I LIKE the Idea of a Superman who isnt just the big blue boy scout, but does what is necessary and probably also has 2 girlfriends etc.
    That aint Superman chief.

  15. #1845
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    -Majority of the Aquaman fandom doesn't even know why they hate the bearded look. It's never a valid criticism and is becoming idiotic at this point.

    -John Constantine crossing over into the main DCU was probably the best thing that was done with the character.

    -As much as i like the DCAU. I felt that Bruce Timm was very lazy with Superman. He once said he couldn't think of any more Superman villains to use, which is why he bought in Darkseid. Ironic b/c Rampage, Bloodsport, Doomsday, Neutron and Hellgrammite all appeared later.

    -You can't say that the Snyder Cut supporters are toxic when folks on here literally say awful things about creators. Is that not toxic? (Exidio, King, Bendis)

    -I think Kelly and Waid's JLA is superior to Morrison's b/c i feel Grant focused way too much on big, epic stuff. But the characters were pretty boring under his run, they seemed thin, one-dimensional.

    -Dick should be able to have both Starfire and Babs. Why do comics fear polygamous relationships?
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I can’t relate.

    DC: Justice League, The Flash, Justice League Dark, Superman, Action Comics, Green Arrow, Justice League Odyssey, The Terrifics, Teen Titans, Titans, Brimstone, Female Furies, Damage, Heroes In Crisis

    Marvel: The Punisher, Cosmic Ghost Rider, Venom, X-23, Cloak and Dagger, Jessica Jones, Sentry

    Indies: Unnatural, Jeepers Creepers, Project Superpowers, Black Hammer, Ninja-K

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