Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Gaius]

The DCAU is overall pretty good but it shouldn’t be held up as the end-all and be-all of DC media as it had just has many poor characterizations and decisions as the DCEU under Snyder did.

[batnbreakfast]

-Dick should be able to have both Starfire and Babs. Why do comics fear polygamous relationships?

Starfire isn't even a character. Just a body.

[Masterff]

-Dick should be able to have both Starfire and Babs. Why do comics fear polygamous relationships?

Actually there is one:

KNOCKOUT with LIANA KERZNER and SCANDAL SAVAGE
In Pre-Flashpoint they planned to marry [3 women marrying each other]

[Ascended]

Starfire isn't even a character. Just a body.

Objectively not true.

[Vordan]

The DCAU is overall pretty good but it shouldn’t be held up as the end-all and be-all of DC media as it had just has many poor characterizations and decisions as the DCEU under Snyder did.

Yep I agree. DCAU WW doesn’t really have any personality traits beyond “Warrior” and “wants to be Batman’s gf”. Timm and Dini never gave her an arc or any real standout moments that I can recall, and her villains weren’t treated much better.

[Frontier]

Yep I agree. DCAU WW doesn’t really have any personality traits beyond “Warrior” and “wants to be Batman’s gf”. Timm and Dini never gave her an arc or any real standout moments that I can recall, and her villains weren’t treated much better.

And the Batman relationship is usually what comes up at conventions, which probably tells you something...

[Gaius]

Yep I agree. DCAU WW doesn’t really have any personality traits beyond “Warrior” and “wants to be Batman’s gf”. Timm and Dini never gave her an arc or any real standout moments that I can recall, and her villains weren’t treated much better.

She was the main one I was thinking of when I wrote that. Agreed on her villains, it annoyed me she was reduced to a plot device for Batman and Zatanna in the one episode featuring Circe.

I like Eisenberg as the voice for Diana but a little annoying she’s had to voice two of worst depictions of Diana in greater media.

[SiegePerilous02]

* Wonder Woman hasn't had that many stories is a falsehood that is parroted without thinking. Diana has plenty of good stories. What she hasn't had are a consistent supporting cast, personality and powers which while those are problems, are separate from the good stories argument. Especially since the bench mark for good stories these days are more about how often they get adapted.

* Comic love using the creator's original depiction and their opinions selectively. The same people who see Marston as the be all of Wonder Woman would lose their minds if Batman went back to using a gun.

Wonder Woman not having many good stories isn't an objective falsehood and isn't always done without thinking. Those that think that could have sampled enough stories to form that opinion. Most comics being published by the big two at any given time are really just standard fare "fluff" entertainment anyway, a character like WW who is so outside the norm of their comfort zones is going to fare even less well. And I think the better runs have some measure of consistency in supporting cast and personality, those things do matter.

All comic book fans opinions are expressed selectively, because these are all different characters with different creators that attract different fans. A fan can genuinely think a lot of Marston's ideas work better for Wonder Woman than a lot (certainly not all, but a decent amount) of things that came afterward, whereas Batman didn't use a gun for long and it was phased out around the time all the major elements of his mythos started taking shape and surpassed it. You can't always compare these things across the board as being the same.

The DCAU is overall pretty good but it shouldn’t be held up as the end-all and be-all of DC media as it had just has many poor characterizations and decisions as the DCEU under Snyder did.

I'm starting to think BTAS was just lightning in a bottle, and the subsequent stuff just never quite got to that level. They were still great cartoons, but as representations of the characters, some of them fall far short. Especially Wonder Woman and JLU era Superman.

Starfire isn't even a character. Just a body.

Yeah, that's definitely not true.

[Vordan]

And the Batman relationship is usually what comes up at conventions, which probably tells you something...

Even her VA Susan Eisenberg, who has tried to get a JL Reunion going, only cares about WonderBat stuff when it comes to DCAU WW. She was asked what she’d like to see done with WW in a hypothetical reunion, and she said “oh I’d like to see the WW/Batman relationship explored more”. I remember reading that and thinking that’s all you want? Not even WonderBat and something else, just more shipping stuff that’s doomed to fail, given DCAU Batman has to end up a bitter old man in a decrepit mansion? But then I realized, of course that’s all she wants, that’s all DCAU WW has. All anyone cares about with regards to her is whether she ever got together with Batman. I think that sucks honestly, and realizing that 2 of the 3 Trinity members weren’t treated that great kinda caused me to reassess the DCAU. DCAU Batman lives up to the hype, but it varies greatly with the rest.

She was the main one I was thinking of when I wrote that. Agreed on her villains, it annoyed me she was reduced to a plot device for Batman and Zatanna in the one episode featuring Circe.

I like Eisenberg as the voice for Diana but a little annoying she’s had to voice two of worst depictions of Diana in greater media.

Yeah it sucks that she doesn’t have better material to work with, but she clearly loved her time with the DCAU, so I think she’s ok. Her voice for Diana is absolutely iconic, up there with Conroy for Batman.

[DrNewGod]

I'm starting to think BTAS was just lightning in a bottle, and the subsequent stuff just never quite got to that level..

I can't remember who posted it, but I agree with an opinion on another forum that STAS probably had higher highs, but also lower lows. BTAS was more consistently good, particularly in its pre-Tim/Robin seasons.

[Gaius]

I'm starting to think BTAS was just lightning in a bottle, and the subsequent stuff just never quite got to that level. They were still great cartoons, but as representations of the characters, some of them fall far short. Especially Wonder Woman and JLU era Superman.

Yeah, I prefer STAS but it’s clear the various Batman shows were way more passion projects for them whereas everything else were just admirably done corporate mandates.

Yeah it sucks that she doesn’t have better material to work with, but she clearly loved her time with the DCAU, so I think she’s ok. Her voice for Diana is absolutely iconic, up there with Conroy for Batman.

Yeah, she and Carter are generally the voice I hear when reading WW in print so its a shame the major times she’s voiced her, it’s either as lusting after Batman (DCAU) or is Superman’s arm candy (Injustice)

[Agent Z]

Wonder Woman not having many good stories isn't an objective falsehood and isn't always done without thinking. Those that think that could have sampled enough stories to form that opinion. Most comics being published by the big two at any given time are really just standard fare "fluff" entertainment anyway, a character like WW who is so outside the norm of their comfort zones is going to fare even less well. And I think the better runs have some measure of consistency in supporting cast and personality, those things do matter.

Well, it's been my experience that the people claiming this have little to no experience with Wonder Woman and often say this to be controversial and say she doesn't deserve to be considered an iconic DC character. I noticed this quite a lot before she got her movie, especially in the 2000s. Anyone can read a bad comic and use that to judge a character's overall worth and history.

All comic book fans opinions are expressed selectively, because these are all different characters with different creators that attract different fans. A fan can genuinely think a lot of Marston's ideas work better for Wonder Woman than a lot (certainly not all, but a decent amount) of things that came afterward, whereas Batman didn't use a gun for long and it was phased out around the time all the major elements of his mythos started taking shape and surpassed it. You can't always compare these things across the board as being the same.

I think my problem is often times these people are singing the virtues of respecting the original creator's vision up until it clashes with something they dislike that wasn't brought in by them.

[Vordan]

I can't remember who posted it, but I agree with an opinion on another forum that STAS probably had higher highs, but also lower lows. BTAS was more consistently good, particularly in its pre-Tim/Robin seasons.

Interesting I think I know the opinion you’re talking about but you have it reversed iirc. BTAS has higher highs but lower lows than STAS. STAS never had an episode as good as Heart of Ice, but it also never had anything as bad as I’ve Got Batman In My Basement. That’s what I recall that opinion being and I think there’s some merit to that. I think STAS is a fine show, nowhere near as great as BTAS, but still a good show that brought a lot to the table like Clancy Brown Lex Luthor and Ironseid.

[Agent Z]

Why do people hate I've Got Batman In My Basement?

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, it's been my experience that the people claiming this have little to no experience with Wonder Woman and often say this to be controversial and say she doesn't deserve to be considered an iconic DC character. I noticed this quite a lot before she got her movie, especially in the 2000s. Anyone can read a bad comic and use that to judge a character's overall worth and history.

Ah ok, that makes more sense and I agree with that. Die hard WW fans can be critical of a lot of runs, but we're generally well informed and I can see the frustration of someone never having read a single WW comic and declaring she shouldn't be an icon (jokes on them, she IS an icon) as very annoying.

Why do people hate I've Got Batman In My Basement?

I think it's due to the lousy animation compared to some other episodes and annoying kid characters who take up most of the screen time, and it's just a lot more cheesy/kiddie than that series was generally known for.

It maybe doesn't deserve "hate," but I certainly agree with the general sentiment that it's not very good.