Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[DrNewGod]

Interesting I think I know the opinion you’re talking about but you have it reversed iirc. BTAS has higher highs but lower lows than STAS. STAS never had an episode as good as Heart of Ice, but it also never had anything as bad as I’ve Got Batman In My Basement. That’s what I recall that opinion being and I think there’s some merit to that. I think STAS is a fine show, nowhere near as great as BTAS, but still a good show that brought a lot to the table like Clancy Brown Lex Luthor and Ironseid.

I might be dyslexic, but I don't think so, and I don't recall seeing specific episodes mentioned. I'm wondering if we read two different posts, one perhaps rebutting the other without a quote to provide reference?

[Vordan]

I might be dyslexic, but I don't think so, and I don't recall seeing specific episodes mentioned. I'm wondering if we read two different posts, one perhaps rebutting the other without a quote to provide reference?

Could be, I’ve definitely seen the comparison that both BTAS and STAS are good shows but one is more consistent in output while the other reaches higher levels of quality while also suffering from steeper drops in quality. I think the reason STAS is more consistent for me while BTAS is more uneven is because STAS has villains that are basically the main bad guys for each season. S1 has Lex, S2 has Brainiac, and S3 has Darkseid. BTAS doesn’t really have season long arcs which makes it more stand-alone, but it benefits in that they got more freedom to experiment episode by episode.

[sifighter]

I like the Batman Who laughs and don’t think he is being overused, however he does need to be done away with before he does get old.

For me it’s the marketing and promotion that has made him old or overused to readers, but to me it feels that besides his appearance in Immortal Men the only people to use him is Snyder and those he works with like Williamson and Tynion to advance his dark multiverse/Perpetua Death Metal story line. If you think about it he’s really only been in Justice League(by Snyder), the BWL mini-series(also by Snyder), Batman/Superman secret six arc (by Williamson), and Hell Arisen (by Tynion).

[Agent Z]

DC's metacommentary on the darkness of superhero comics is almost always dumb for many reasons, not the least of which is them reveling in the very thing they are criticizing. Infinite Crisis killed off a bunch of c-listers who were then replaced by darker and edgier substitutes.

[jetengine]

DC's metacommentary on the darkness of superhero comics is almost always dumb for many reasons, not the least of which is them reveling in the very thing they are criticizing. Infinite Crisis killed off a bunch of c-listers who were then replaced by darker and edgier substitutes.

Or Doomsday Clock which is "Blame Alan Moore for DC being miserable"

[Adekis]

DC's metacommentary on the darkness of superhero comics is almost always dumb for many reasons, not the least of which is them reveling in the very thing they are criticizing. Infinite Crisis killed off a bunch of c-listers who were then replaced by darker and edgier substitutes.

Agreed. The way to get away from gritty comics isn't to criticize them in a gritty comic, it's just to write comics that aren't gritty.

[Agent Z]

There are a number of outdated and bigoted elements in the DCU today that some DC fans are far too willing too accept and justify.

[Will Evans]

There are a number of outdated and bigoted elements in the DCU today that some DC fans are far too willing too accept and justify.

Examples please?

[Samm]

I think the big OG 7 lineup is boring and uninspired! It’s also pretty dated. Probably why I haven’t touched a JL book in years, though Snyder’s lineup caught my attention (more than 7, Hawkgirl and John included!)

[Midnight_v]

Hmph. Here's mine.

Dc Does a pretty damn good job overall, when it comes to trying to trying to show diverse faces and backgrounds.

In fact they were doing it all along...

and they never get the credit they deserve, because both the fanboy climate and NOW the current cultural climate on both sides has its setting turned up to 10 on "Complain" at all time.

I don't agree with a lot of directions they take, not a fan of Dan Didio, or many other guys up top and writers, but I acknowledge that like anybody in that job they're giving their take, like everybody else
is ... Except they're 1. Privy to analytics we're not, and 2. Beholden to sales.

The fact that there's a a black person on every team and a lgbt person on every OTHER team amazing when I stop to think about over-representation based on real world statistics of people. The fact that they made books like
Aztec, Vibe, The Blue Beetle (reyes) and Kennan Kong...

The fact that John, and Vixen and Cyborg, AND Aqualad ( Ones I think of because I happen to be black but its more than just them) and every character people complain about not being "FIRST" or more popular, or used more... actually exist AT ALL illustrates that DC has made a lot of effort in these areas. Most of this occurring when it was MORE prohibitive to make such advances ... unlike to day when the twitterratti tries to make in prohibitive NOT to
do so with mixed results. Mixed results because when they don't catch like batman, or superman... blame bigotry, when "mediocrity of creation/reception" is just as if not MORE likely an explanation.

Even when they GET an offering its like this locust mentality okay, checkmark, lets move to the next mission...
While For some people laughably... the answer is always "We want MOAR" well of course you do, but everyone else does too many of them willing to spend more.

I look at Metal as the biggest failure at DC ever. They day they literally said... well batman. . . lets make everyone into batman as a solution to move some books.

Indicative that they have problems getting non bat characters to roll off well.

[Agent Z]

Examples please?

A lot of DC's Asian women characters fall very heavily into the "Dragon lady" stereotype. Then there are characters like Egg Fu which fans keep pushing for writers to use more and more despite everything about him screaming "typical Silver Age comics racism". Actually a lot of Wonder Woman's Golden and Silver Age writing when it comes to women and non-white people is viewed with rose-tinted glasses. Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One got praise from Golden Age WW fans for harkening back to that era despite those tropes being abandoned for good reasons.

You also have the outdated depiction of the mentally ill in superhero comics (especially Batman) which more often than not falls into violent murderers despite mentally ill people being more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.

Then we have people complaining about "over-representation" of racial minorities and non-white people in superhero comics despite the fact that DC has only relatively recently started treating those groups like people instead of unicorns. Despite the fact that the world isn't just white and/or straight people, the mere presence of someone outside that demographic is enough to cause controversy to the point some bend over backwards to claim that the Martian Manhunter is better representation of African-Americans than Cyborg. When a white character fails to take off, we don't have people ready to throw a parade the same way people do if someone like Vixen or Cyborg's book struggles.

And who can forget the toxic backlash to Janelle Asselin over her criticism of a Teen Titans cover which resulted in this board being purged and rebooted. Some of that toxicity still remains as we saw how many people jumped through hoops to defends Frank Cho in the Wonder Woman variant cover debacle despite him unambiguously and unquestionably in the wrong.

[Midnight_v]

Sooo... yeah.

Just to reiterate.
Dc was representing minorities before the internet tried to force them at metaphorical gunpoint to do so by bandying about bigotry and/or racism as the catch all for every poor choice or failing of a comic character.
They put the most diverse line possible out on the Superfriends cartoon, they allowed Obsidian and Triumph, and more recently The Ray and Nu Alan Scott to be gay males (although I find it less genuine than pre-culture war moves honestly)

Dc is the very company that published and distributed Milestone Media.

They were making move before it was popular to do so and still do.

In the end for most its the same old fan-boying in a new dress. They're not doing what "I" want QQ. DC's not following "MY!" instructions. Which is sad in a way, but natural I guess everyone wants
something the only thing that's really crazy about it is that its wrapped in fake moral high ground while never acknowledging that all the characters they argue and fight and get pressed about?

Are characters that DC was making waaaaay before most some us started to feel "pressed" about cartoon men in tights.
I'd at times prefer it was better (ie.) more to my liking, but then I try no to get to worked up or insulting about it.

[SiegePerilous02]

A lot of DC's Asian women characters fall very heavily into the "Dragon lady" stereotype. Then there are characters like Egg Fu which fans keep pushing for writers to use more and more despite everything about him screaming "typical Silver Age comics racism". Actually a lot of Wonder Woman's Golden and Silver Age writing when it comes to women and non-white people is viewed with rose-tinted glasses. Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One got praise from Golden Age WW fans for harkening back to that era despite those tropes being abandoned for good reasons.

Just because people like the Golden Age Wonder Woman comics overall doesn't mean they view the depictions of non-white characters as one of the good elements.

This goes for a lot of old material. Much like how people pick and choose what they like in modern comics, they can do the same for older ones and leave behind the stuff that should be left behind.

[yash]

I'm pretty sure you and I had a discussion about your claims about mentally ill, you are wrong about that claim and you still insist on repeating that claim, your other points were addressed so I won't bother with those

[iron chimp]

A lot of DC's Asian women characters fall very heavily into the "Dragon lady" stereotype. Then there are characters like Egg Fu which fans keep pushing for writers to use more and more despite everything about him screaming "typical Silver Age comics racism". Actually a lot of Wonder Woman's Golden and Silver Age writing when it comes to women and non-white people is viewed with rose-tinted glasses. Morrison's Wonder Woman Earth One got praise from Golden Age WW fans for harkening back to that era despite those tropes being abandoned for good reasons.

You also have the outdated depiction of the mentally ill in superhero comics (especially Batman) which more often than not falls into violent murderers despite mentally ill people being more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.

Then we have people complaining about "over-representation" of racial minorities and non-white people in superhero comics despite the fact that DC has only relatively recently started treating those groups like people instead of unicorns. Despite the fact that the world isn't just white and/or straight people, the mere presence of someone outside that demographic is enough to cause controversy to the point some bend over backwards to claim that the Martian Manhunter is better representation of African-Americans than Cyborg. When a white character fails to take off, we don't have people ready to throw a parade the same way people do if someone like Vixen or Cyborg's book struggles.

And who can forget the toxic backlash to Janelle Asselin over her criticism of a Teen Titans cover which resulted in this board being purged and rebooted. Some of that toxicity still remains as we saw how many people jumped through hoops to defends Frank Cho in the Wonder Woman variant cover debacle despite him unambiguously and unquestionably in the wrong.

You could make that case for nearly everyone tho.

If yr a brit - its either merlin and king arthur or foggy london and the ripper

If yr a german ‐ nazi or nothing

The fiery scot

The drunken irishman or corrupt cop.

The latin lothario

The enigmatic / arrogant / chic frenchman

Italian - mafia

Im sure people can add a loads more.

All people had was whatever photo reference material was available, a few pages for a done in one story, and crappy blotchy printing on cheap paper. Not miracle workers.