Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

Because aside from invulnerability, that’s how she was conceived as from day one by her creator?

I think the real answer for some can be found in their names. SuperMAN. Wonder WOMAN. Notice which one is being called for to made less powerful in response to the notion that they might be roughly equal in power levels, and which one isn't.

[SiegePerilous02]

If we're honoring Wonder Woman's Golden Age power set, she still lived in an OTT cartoon world where she would occasionally pull of feats rivaling Captain Marvel or Silver Age Superman. I agree that Superman should be slightly higher in stats, but the gap shouldn't be that big. She should be a VERY close #2 and makes up the difference and lack of stuff like freeze breath and laser beam eyes with tools like the lasso.

She shouldn't lose flight in modern continuity. She shouldn't have it in her early days so she can make use of the plane, but once she has it she shouldn't lose it and keep the plane in reserve.

Paradise Island should have crazy technology to rival the Fortress.

[SuperX]

I think the real answer for some can be found in their names. SuperMAN. Wonder WOMAN. Notice which one is being called for to made less powerful in response to the notion that they might be roughly equal in power levels, and which one isn't.

No I don't think so, and thanks for making this a gender thing when it didn't have to be.

Diana is a bad ass, I think she could show off her badassness more with a less God level power and a Lil more emphasis on her skill and weapons.

[manwhohaseverything]

It's harder to have in-flight fight sequences in live action and actually sell it to audiences. People just can't grasp physics when collisions occur.Flight is actually very complicated from technical stand point. Moreover, it can get very bland. I believe the day and age of flight being essential for superheroes is over. I liked wonder woman using her lasso to swing on lightning. Moreover, her ability to glide on air currents was way more engaging than straight up flight, for me. It was interesting . I also like her being able to get pierced. It fits her greek warrior persona. Why do people want another flying brick anyways? Let the character be engaging and standout. She isn't female superman. The most terrible thing you can do to wonder woman is make her bland. That's supposed to be the opposite of the concept itself.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think the flight sequences in the movie are fine if Superman and both Captain Marvels are examples. Diana could work just as well if she had it.

My main thing is I don't want her to be flightless with nothing else. My favorite would be a gliding on air currents (including riding on lighting, which seems like a neat expansion of that) with invisible plane combo. It provides an opportunity to get a combo of visuals unique to her. Or flightless and needing the plane at first, and then getting (and keeping) full flight later. That's fine too. Or worst case, she she just has full flight and never uses the plane like in Perez's run, but that's dead last of the three options for me.

But never just grounded. And if she has the plane, it should always come from the Amazons as an example of their ingenuity. No gift from the government or Hephaestus or Batman please, otherwise I don't want it.

[Marik Swift]

I second Wonder Woman being depowered.

Those making this into some kind of gender bias thing are being more sexist than anybody. Wonder Woman being Superman lite is far worst than her being dropped down to golden age Superman levels. Her being Superman lite is pretty much why she has failed to breakthrough into the mainstream for years. Few people are going to drink Pepsi over Coke.

At the end of the day, I would rather see Diana with Captain America's level of strength take down Superman cause she is just that damn SKILLED. Play up her skill, not her strength. Diana should be fighting on par with Darkseid, not cause she can hit harder, but because she's just that damn GOOD!

So yea, removing the Superman level of strength, remove flying and highlight her reflexes. Give me her using all kinds of weapons, the invisible jet and the bracelets to deflect bullet.

Have it as that she can remove her bracelets to channel the full extent of her blessings. In which case she becomes even stronger than Superman and almost on par with even Darkseid.

I want Wonder Woman. Not Superman with a sword.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think the flight sequences in the movie are fine if Superman and both Captain Marvels are examples. Diana could work just as well if she had it.

No, it didn't work(i am speaking generally) . The man of steel was hard for people to get through. People began to tune off. It wasn't that it had destruction. The action itself wasn't engaging, entertaining and keeping the tension entire run time for the audiences . Moreover, snyder really didn't pace the fight sequences and spread it out in parts. That was a bigger mistake. People just didn't feeling anything when zod and clark were colliding mid air. I generally think, the problems and nitpicks with the movie came from a place of lack of entertainment and sense of disbelief being broken. So people got frustrated started focusing/fixating on things like destruction and shock of superman killing. I mean, superman being destructive isn't a new a thing. Almost, every version has done it.ofcourse, snyders own lack of restraint with the 9/11 imagery wasn't helpful either. Shazam had similar problems. The only flight-fight sequence with tension was actually not a fight sequence it was the chase sequence in mid-air. Either, this is major problem directors and creative personnel need to tackle. They can't keep avoiding the problem like mcu does.(they never do flight-fight thing) . Why? Because flight is most used ability and it needs to be engaging with fighting sequences. For some reasons, dbz-esque fight in live action environment with realism being a factor doesn't translate well or seem to be engaging for audiences . It leaves people numb to the action,not in a state of tension.

Anyways, I get that you don't want her grounded. But, like i said she is a magical and wondrous woman. She can have other means of getting around when she isn't flying her jet.if nothing else they can have her borrow hermes's sandles. Lol!That would be a different kind of flight. I like my heroes being engaging visually and from imaginative stand point. Unique movements can help make characters engaging.

[lgcruz]

The flight sequences in the final fight in matrix revolutions were always praised though, so while it´s true that flight is not exactly easy to make interesting, it´s not exactly impossible, and the man of steel sequences are fine. The only thing boring with them is that superman himself just throws a punch, there´s no real tactics or skill.

If you don´t want flight, jumping really hard from scattered debris like saitama from one punch man is more than adequate for your purposes, or even better, just have diana be able to summon tornados for her throw herself in. Compared to that, swinging from lightning is just ridiculous. I know physics are never a thing in superheroes, but that´s just nonsensical.

[SiegePerilous02]

I second Wonder Woman being depowered.

Those making this into some kind of gender bias thing are being more sexist than anybody. Wonder Woman being Superman lite is far worst than her being dropped down to golden age Superman levels. Her being Superman lite is pretty much why she has failed to breakthrough into the mainstream for years. Few people are going to drink Pepsi over Coke.

At the end of the day, I would rather see Diana with Captain America's level of strength take down Superman cause she is just that damn SKILLED. Play up her skill, not her strength. Diana should be fighting on par with Darkseid, not cause she can hit harder, but because she's just that damn GOOD!

So yea, removing the Superman level of strength, remove flying and highlight her reflexes. Give me her using all kinds of weapons, the invisible jet and the bracelets to deflect bullet.

Have it as that she can remove her bracelets to channel the full extent of her blessings. In which case she becomes even stronger than Superman and almost on par with even Darkseid.

I want Wonder Woman. Not Superman with a sword.

No really. She was at her most popular (relatively speaking due to the times) during the Golden Age when she was under the full control of her creator and his team and he intended her to be Superman's equal or else very close to it. Otherwise, her IP is not used enough in other media to gain consistent popularity. She usually is received very well when the get stuff like Lynda Carter and the movies, but those are rare. Like it or not, there is a gender bias at work. Not because of the gap in strength (I think Superman should be the strongest regardless of sex because it's his thing, but a woman being a close #2 over the rest of the heroes that are majorly comprised of men shouldn't be a big deal), but because of how her IP is handled. There is still the mistaken belief that female heroes can't succeed the way men can; it's gotten a little better due to the success of her first film, but there is still work to be done. The "Superman lite" thing is really only a concern among comic readers, and the comic reading industry is run by mostly white nerds who aren't always equipped to deal with characters or readers from a different perspective. Diana has been screwed most of her existence since she lost Marston, barring occasional exceptions like Perez, Jimenez and Rucka.

Captain America strength is WAY too low. No way she beats Superman with that level of power. That's fair for the other Amazons who gain it through training, but not her.

No, it didn't work. The man of steel was hard for people to get through. People began to tune off. It wasn't that it had destruction. The action itself wasn't engaging, entertaining and keeping the tension entire run time for the audiences . Moreover, snyder really didn't pace the fight sequences and spread it out in parts. That was a bigger mistake. People just didn't feeling anything when zod and clark were colliding mid air. I generally, the problems and nitpicks with the movie came from a place of lack of entertainment and sense of disbelief being broken. So people got frustrated started focusing on things like destruction. I mean, superman being destructive isn't a new a thing.ofcourse, snyders own lack of restraint with the 9/11 imagery wasn't helpful either. Shazam had similar problems. The only flight-fight sequence with tension was actually not a fight sequence it was the chase sequence in mid-air. Either, this is major problem directors and creative personnel need to tackle. They can't keep avoiding the problem like mcu does.(they never do flight-fight thing) . Why? Because flight is most used ability and it needs to be engaging with fighting sequences. For some reasons, dbz-esque in fight live action environment with realism being a factor doesn't translate well or seem to be engaging.

Anyways, I get that you don't want her grounded. But, like i said she is a magical and wondrous woman. She can have other means of getting around when she isn't flying.if nothing else they can have her borrow hermes's sandles. Lol!That would be a different kind of flight. I like my heroes being engaging visually and from imaginative stand point. Unique movements can help make characters engaging.

Clark learning to fly in MOS was one of the few scenes nearly everyone agrees was great.

As for the bolded, that's why I said gliding on air currents/lightning + plane would be my preference, but the reasons for ruling out flight entirely don't really add up. Nobody really cares about her being a Female Superman (not for that reason at least).

Though her lack of flight in some incarnations could work in her favor if we're talking video games. Superman can't get one because of the mechanics of flight being too much of a pain, but a grounded Wonder Woman who uses the plane in a few missions is easier to manage in a video game.

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark learning to fly in MOS was one of the few scenes nearly everyone agrees was great.

No, i wasn't talking about just flight. I was talking about the dbz-esque flight-midair-combat.I thought i was specific.

[Gaius]

Wonder Woman being treated as "Female Superman" comes mainly from writers outside of her own book on stuff like Justice League and was happening long before Perez gave her self-powered flight or planet-tossing strength. And given the track record of a lot of writers at DC, removing that stuff will only play more into modern "Warrior Woman" and sword nonsense.

[manwhohaseverything]

Wonder Woman being treated as "Female Superman" comes mainly from writers outside of her own book on stuff like Justice League and was happening long before Perez gave her self-powered flight or planet-tossing strength. And given the track record of a lot of writers at DC, removing that stuff will only play more into modern "Warrior Woman" and sword nonsense.

If people have a problem with lethal weapons being used. Then they get rid of or replace it with creative tools like gloves or gauntlet or things that don't signify war. But, generally i do believe wonder woman should be more about skillset, tools, technique and magic than pure brute strength or angelic flight. But, her being a warrior is likely going to stick, regardless.

On a side note, it's not superman she is female version of. Superman wasn't the original flying paragon with strength and flight. It was captain marvel. So, wonder woman is actually a female captain marvel(lol!) .I just used female superman so people get the message.

[Gaius]

If people have a problem with lethal weapons being used. Then they get rid of or replace it with creative tools like gloves or gauntlet or things that don't signify war. But, generally i do believe wonder woman should be more about skillset, tools, technique and magic than pure brute strength or angelic flight. But, her being a warrior is likely going to stick, regardless.

On a side note, it's not superman she is female version of. Superman wasn't the original flying paragon with strength and flight. It was captain marvel. So, wonder woman is actually a female captain marvel(lol!) .I just used female superman so people get the message.

I don't really have a problem with using lethal weapons on its own, just not as her default image as some in recent years have attempted. More just that writers have used "Diana kills" as a way to make Bruce and Clark look good for not doing that or for them to wag their fingers at her.

[SiegePerilous02]

No, i wasn't talking about just flight. I was talking about the dbz-esque flight-midair-combat.I thought i was specific.

No you did, I actually sped read that so my mistake there (I'm taking quick breaks at work so not reading everything too closely)

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't really have a problem with using lethal weapons on its own, just not as her default image as some in recent years have attempted. More just that writers have used "Diana kills" as a way to make Bruce and Clark look good for not doing that or for them to wag their fingers at her.

I don't believe so. Clark looked like a hypocrite if you are referring to the maxwell lord thing.Moreover,i don't believe a character killing or not killing makes a character less good or more good. It depends on the person and the context. I mean, if i couldn't watch a movie with killing i would have lost out on wayyy to many good samurai movies.