Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[phonogram12]

Only because they didn't keep trying to bring back pre-crisis elements that had no place in modern times in his case.

Or maybe because while Miller brought the character back to his roots, what was done with the other characters just took them farther from them.

[chief12d]

Cyborg's metallic plating that covers a full third of his face is outdated and one of the biggest flaws holding him back as a character. It contributes to what is already an unappealing design and doesn't resonate with audiences the way I think writers intend it to anymore.

[Agent Z]

Kinda funny then that when Morrison brought back many of the same elements during his Batman run it was quite the success.

I did say "elements that had no place in modern times" for a reason.

And even Morrison wasn't without his missteps. DC's inability to move on from the past is and always has been their biggest flaw and why so many of their characters are seen as outdated.

[Agent Z]

Cyborg's metallic plating that covers a full third of his face is outdated and one of the biggest flaws holding him back as a character. It contributes to what is already an unappealing design and doesn't resonate with audiences the way I think writers intend it to anymore.

The face plate has been used in adaptations with no complaints. It clearly isn't a problem.

[chief12d]

The face plate has been used in adaptations with no complaints. It clearly isn't a problem.

Probably should've specified as a leading solo character, in an ensembles it's ok (or at least not too bad) for him to have an unattractive design. But as a solo character it definitely helps to be conventionally attractive and not have glaring design flaws.

And in Cyborg's case his character is often too focused on his deformities, like the face plate, to really be an engaging lead. Removing the metal on a third of his face could potentially force creators to tell more out of the box stories with deeper themes than "my face is gone, am I still human?" I'd say it's worth a shot at least.

[phonogram12]

I did say "elements that had no place in modern times" for a reason.

And even Morrison wasn't without his missteps. DC's inability to move on from the past is and always has been their biggest flaw and why so many of their characters are seen as outdated.

Or they just finally came to their senses in certain cases, realizing that classics work a certain way for a reason.

[Restingvoice]

I remember when I made a thread in DC Comics about how Nightwing shouldn’t always be connected to Batman and then it got moved to Batmen. I’m still irritated.

Heh. Relevant.

[Agent Z]

Or they just finally came to their senses in certain cases, realizing that classics work a certain way for a reason.

Except for the part were it worked. Which it didn't.

[DrNewGod]

They’ve been dead longer than they’ve been alive believe it or not. Byrne’s reboot was the first time they lived to see Clark become Superman, and even then Pa tends to die pretty frequently.

Thing was, The Kents had a long presence in pre-Crisis comics, regularly appearing from 1947-1984ish). It's just that they were in the Superboy stories, which were set in the past.

[Dark Falz]

Cyborg's metallic plating that covers a full third of his face is outdated and one of the biggest flaws holding him back as a character. It contributes to what is already an unappealing design and doesn't resonate with audiences the way I think writers intend it to anymore.

I'm not saying this to be smart or contentious, but I have trouble understanding why some people are fans of that character when they (his fans) have so many problems with him.

They're like:
"I hate this.
I hate that.
I hate this and that.
I hate that, too.
I hate this aspect.
I hate that aspect.
Oh, and I hate this, too.

But guess what? CYBORG IS AWESOME!!! \m/>____<\m/"

For me, the character design alone is a deal breaker. He's just not a cool or inspiring image to me in any incarnation.
Is it the headcanon or fanfic plots that make people like him when they often don't like what's on the printed page?

[lemonpeace]

Cyborg's metallic plating that covers a full third of his face is outdated and one of the biggest flaws holding him back as a character. It contributes to what is already an unappealing design and doesn't resonate with audiences the way I think writers intend it to anymore.

I'll go a step further, a Cyborg of Vic's supposed sophisticated (as he'd have to be beyond bleeding edge to plausible be a superhero on the League level) shouldn't have any overtly cybernetic components could be clunky or give off the impression of a deformity. Vic's struggle SHOULD be a philosophical one, not a physical or aesthetic one.

[Tzigone]

I'll go a step further, a Cyborg of Vic's supposed sophisticated (as he'd have to be beyond bleeding edge to plausible be a superhero on the League level) shouldn't have any overtly cybernetic components could be clunky or give off the impression of a deformity. Vic's struggle SHOULD be a philosophical one, not a physical or aesthetic one.

I just can't agree. A character called "Cyborg" should look like a Cyborg, with visible cybernetics, at least in "battle mode" if you want form shifting. And Vic's aesthetic and appearance (and other's reactions to it) as part of his struggle, at least in early days, is a foundational aspect of the character. It shouldn't be a completely good thing he's happy with or or even a completely good thing he's erroneously thinks is bad for reason. There should be real, concrete negative consequences and loss to his transformation. Now, he can overcome them later - either technologically or emotionally - but those are the foundational aspects of the character to me. Taking them away is like taking away Bruce's parents deaths (he only thought they died and hurt over it) or (when Vic is happy from the getgo) making it like Bruce never had any loss. I'm all for characters without loss. Hate Barry's retconned angst. But not for stripping it from characters where it helped shaped them. Which is did for Vic even more than Bruce, given the era each debuted in.

I am, however 100% in favor of not repeating the "man or machine" storyline over and over. It was a good read the first time, but he should not keep retreading ground. Happened to most of the NTT, due to Wolfman's writer's block, I guess, and much to everyone's detriment.

[9th.]

I remember when I made a thread in DC Comics about how Nightwing shouldn’t always be connected to Batman and then it got moved to Batmen. I’m still irritated.

This made my day, it's absolutely hilarious

[Dark Falz]

I just can't agree. A character called "Cyborg" should look like a Cyborg, with visible cybernetics, at least in "battle mode" if you want form shifting. And Vic's aesthetic and appearance (and other's reactions to it) as part of his struggle, at least in early days, is a foundational aspect of the character. It shouldn't be a completely good thing he's happy with or or even a completely good thing he's erroneously thinks is bad for reason. There should be real, concrete negative consequences and loss to his transformation. Now, he can overcome them later - either technologically or emotionally - but those are the foundational aspects of the character to me.

Yeah, I see it that way, too. I'm positive the character was/is supposed to have a Quasimodo element to him. The thing that makes me scratch my head is that if someone doesn't want Quasimodo, why gravitate toward that character to begin with? I'm not saying Cyborg has no worth, Quasimodo obviously does. I just don't really understand why some are drawn to him when they're at odds with so many foundational things about him.

I'm not really into him partially because I'm not too into characters like that. That Beauty and the Beast show from the 80s, Swamp Thing, Quasimodo...that sort of freak archetype just doesn't particularly excite me. It can be okay in a team setting, like with The Thing or...well, Cyborg, but those aren't characters I'm specifically drawn to by themselves.

[Gaius]

Of the Big 3, the only one to really benefit from post-Crisis continuity is Batman.

I wouldn’t say WW lost much ditching the decades of Pre-Crisis stuff that followed Marston’s death and even of the Marston stuff that was also ditched, the important elements were largely kept.