Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[SiegePerilous02]

In the comics, there is some mention of how even as a kid Regime Superman had some troubling aspects to him so the implications seem to be that this version of Superman was just destined to be evil unlike his normally good counterparts.

As for Wonder Woman, they eventually did give her a Freudian excuse for her actions. In Injustice 2 #1, we find out that the Steve Trevor of this universe was a Nazi who tried to take advantage of Diana's trust in order to steal the Lasso so the Axis could win the war. Diana killed him and this was what started her down the dark path.

The execution of these is... questionable.

I do remember the "surprise, Steve is a Nazi!" stuff now that you mention it.

yeah, I kind of stand by the "dumpster fire" comment. Superman got it better than some other characters in a way, but overall it seems like a bad idea that benefits nobody all around.

[Agent Z]

I do remember the "surprise, Steve is a Nazi!" stuff now that you mention it.

A year after Secret Empire came out no less.

yeah, I kind of stand by the "dumpster fire" comment. Superman got it better than some other characters in a way, but overall it seems like a bad idea that benefits nobody all around.

On that we can agree on.

[Gaius]

In the comics, there is some mention of how even as a kid Regime Superman had some troubling aspects to him so the implications seem to be that this version of Superman was just destined to be evil unlike his normally good counterparts.

As for Wonder Woman, they eventually did give her a Freudian excuse for her actions. In Injustice 2 #1, we find out that the Steve Trevor of this universe was a Nazi who tried to take advantage of Diana's trust in order to steal the Lasso so the Axis could win the war. Diana killed him and this was what started her down the dark path.

The execution of these is... questionable.

The Wonder Woman one in particular just reeked of "riding off the coattails" of the movie.

[SiegePerilous02]

A year after Secret Empire came out no less.


On that we can agree on.

Ooh that's right. I wonder if that was deliberate?

Because it went over SO well the first time...

The Wonder Woman one in particular just reeked of "riding off the coattails" of the movie.

Which would be weird, since movie audiences liked Steve so turning him into a Nazi seems...counter productive

[Gaius]

Ooh that's right. I wonder if that was deliberate?

Because it went over SO well the first time...



Which would be weird, since movie audiences liked Steve so turning him into a Nazi seems...counter productive

Because only the Injustice franchise is "Woman goes bad because a man she slept with was mean to her" is considered a bold and fresh concept for a female villain.

[TheRay]

Except we've seen that no human can truly temper Nobu.

Then even better still I’d rather just have Nobu as Dr. Fate. I feel like it ruins good characters to have their only importance be playing host to some entity, it’s cool that the Nelson family is heavily involved but they all sort of lose their own identities when they put on the helmet. Take The Spectre for example, the other heroes can tell when it’s not Jim Corrigan, that’s the way it should be.

[manwhohaseverything]

Which doesn't mean virtually every hero has to take leave of their senses and follow him. Especially since some of them like Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern are leaders in their own rights.

as far as I know many of them turned sides later on as well flash was one of the characters i believe. Blind believer isn't what happened. People can agree to moral position and disagree with other position of leaders or even the execution of certain things.Green Lantern also turned sides as well.

The entire first game revolves entirely around only Superman can beat Superman and the second game is given one of the two endings in which he is victorious.

Yet,batman ending is seen as canon.Also,first game and second game basically implies batman can take out superman .supergirl became Robin.

As for shazam being heat vision.the guy wasn't even in captain marvel form.I see nothing wrong with that.As for Wonder Woman as mcbeth,that's bad.Atleast,ww has agency.Superman is a tool(then again many times modern superman in general is just a tool of his parents,Lois..etc.he has no agency).it is not as bad as a wimp who goes of the rails because one bad day with dead girlfriend(superman rarely cried about his city and his colleagues).some punking out, freaking Alfred beats the crap out of Superman.

Finally,he is freaking superman. He is up there in power hierarchy. There is nothing that states superman wouldn't able to go toe to toe with these guys or kill them.it is not like batman or Hatley situation where so called Street heroes punch galactus.

[achilles]

Then even better still I’d rather just have Nobu as Dr. Fate. I feel like it ruins good characters to have their only importance be playing host to some entity, it’s cool that the Nelson family is heavily involved but they all sort of lose their own identities when they put on the helmet. Take The Spectre for example, the other heroes can tell when it’s not Jim Corrigan, that’s the way it should be.

At least Dr. Fate would then be delicious, with great Japanese-Peruvian fusion cuisine.

[Vordan]

So for those who played the game or read the comics for this dumpster fire, did the good Superman who showed up in the first game help reinforce that Injustice Superman is an outlier?
Or did they play it as he was lucky not to have faced a similar tragedy, and he could easily go over the edge if the same thing happened to him?

I'm cynically thinking it was the latter, and I know the other heroes like Wonder Woman weren't even afforded that much, which is even worse.

Lol he literally says “I might have made the same decisions if put in his position” at the end of 1, with Injustice Batman telling him he’ll come over and kick his ass if he does.

[SiegePerilous02]

Lol he literally says “I might have made the same decisions if put in his position” at the end of 1, with Injustice Batman telling him he’ll come over and kick his ass if he does.

Oh Jesus wept. Yeah, "Good" Superman doesn't sound like it helped the situation all that much if that is the case.

It does sound like the comics tried to get around it by offering half assed excuses for Superman and Wonder Woman, but far more people play the games than read the comics so it's a bit moot.

[Guy_McNichts]

I think Zero Punctuation summed it up best re: Wonder Woman in his review of Injustice 2:
"Wonder Woman has precisely none of Superman's motivation for turning evil...but does so anyway with twice the gusto."

[Gaius]

As for shazam being heat vision.the guy wasn't even in captain marvel form.I see nothing wrong with that.As for Wonder Woman as mcbeth,that's bad.Atleast,ww has agency.Superman is a tool(then again many times modern superman in general is just a tool of his parents,Lois..etc.he has no agency).it is not as bad as a wimp who goes of the rails because one bad day with dead girlfriend(superman rarely cried about his city and his colleagues).some punking out, freaking Alfred beats the crap out of Superman.

Finally,he is freaking superman. He is up there in power hierarchy. There is nothing that states superman wouldn't able to go toe to toe with these guys or kill them.it is not like batman or Hatley situation where so called Street heroes punch galactus.

I'm not arguing power levels or that Superman could or couldn't beat any of them in a fight. I'm stating they are other characters in Injustice, between the knuckle draggers at NRS and lousy writers like Taylor, who got far more of a raw deal than Superman and often they're raw deal being directly to Superman's benefit.

Yeah, it sucks Superman's big AAA videogame appearances the past decade is as some C-grade Darth Vader wannabe. It sucks even more characters who have far less opportunities than he has had also got tossed under the bus for Superman, Batman, and Harley's benefit.

[Agent Z]

as far as I know many of them turned sides later on as well flash was one of the characters i believe. Blind believer isn't what happened.

Yes it did. That they turned on him later on doesn't change that.

Yet,batman ending is seen as canon.

By who?

Also,first game and second game basically implies batman can take out superman

The first game had Batman losing the war to the regime and needing help from a Justice League of another universe. Even they didn't actually win until the good Superman got involved

.supergirl became Robin.

I thought we were talking about Superman being a jobber?

As for shazam being heat vision.the guy wasn't even in captain marvel form.

Yes he was. Did you actually play the game's story mode?

Finally,he is freaking superman. He is up there in power hierarchy.

So are Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern and Black Adam. Yet he beats all of them.

There is nothing that states superman wouldn't able to go toe to toe with these guys or kill them.

Are you actually following this conversation? You're responding to things no one is saying.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm not arguing power levels or that Superman could or couldn't beat any of them in a fight. I'm stating they are other characters in Injustice, between the knuckle draggers at NRS and lousy writers like Taylor, who got far more of a raw deal than Superman and often they're raw deal being directly to Superman's benefit.

Yeah, it sucks Superman's big AAA videogame appearances the past decade is as some C-grade Darth Vader wannabe. It sucks even more characters who have far less opportunities than he has had also got tossed under the bus for Superman, Batman, and Harley's benefit.

Is it really getting tossed under the bus for his benefit if the narrative is still making him a villain?

I agree that Wonder Woman for example definitely has it worse, and other characters have overall less good stuff to fall back on than he does (though WW and Aquaman currently have movies that are actually good to fall back on). But he's still the most visible villain in the story, and it really leaves not much for anyone to be happy about. I think a lot of Superman fans are chiefly going to be upset about the raw deal he gets (natch(, but they can be aware other characters get it just as bad if not worse and aren't necessarily fine with their treatment either.

[Gaius]

Is it really getting tossed under the bus for his benefit if the narrative is still making him a villain?

I agree that Wonder Woman for example definitely has it worse, and other characters have overall less good stuff to fall back on than he does (though WW and Aquaman currently have movies that are actually good to fall back on). But he's still the most visible villain in the story, and it really leaves not much for anyone to be happy about. I think a lot of Superman fans are chiefly going to be upset about the raw deal he gets (natch(, but they can be aware other characters get it just as bad if not worse and aren't necessarily fine with their treatment either.

YMMV situation but I like I think graded on a curve Superman's one of the better handled characters in Injustice (inasmuch there's any character handled well in the franchise) as they at least try to explain how he got from Point A to Point Z. I don't really think they (games or comics) did it well at all so I think Superman fans are right to criticize that but more effort/thought was at least afforded to him than others who all pretty much lineup and lose any agency.

But like you said earlier, it's all about kissing Batman's (and Harley and Joker's) butts at the end of the day.