Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Gaius]

Speaking as someone who isn't really a Hal fan, I have to ask; would you have liked the Parallax idea if it was a character you liked as a hero?

DC’s never really handled “heroes becoming villains” all that well either as main continuity stuff or elseworlds (Parallax, Cassandra Cain, Injustice, etc) so doubtful.

[Will Evans]

DC’s never really handled “heroes becoming villains” all that well either as main continuity stuff or elseworlds (Parallax, Cassandra Cain, Injustice, etc) so doubtful.

How about the Golden Age Jester?

[DrNewGod]

I was talking about New 52's Earth 2 series. Not the new 52 overall.

Sorry: My bad.

[Lightning Rider]

I'm on the reverse side - I dislike any hero, even one I don't care about, going evil. It's diminishing a hero, making them less. I'm into superheroes because I love good triumphing over evil (sadly less and less common in comics), and this isn't that. I think the return of status quo makes it meaningless, but I still prefer meaningless and swept under the rug to evil triumphing. And, generally speaking, it comes out of nowhere over a short period of time and is wildly out of character with all previous actions (and that matters to me), and done just for shock value, and I'm not into that either. Minus even more points if they kill other heroes along the way or perpetuate city or planet-wide murder/destruction (something else I'm more than tired of, but also, when that much death is involved, it's another win for evil and I don't like that).

I could live the rest of my life without reading another story about a hero turning evil. But I think to categorically dismiss the idea denies the potential. Perhaps that's a value related to how we feel about the superhero genre itself.

For me, this is the one that conceptually had a lot to offer. The themes of willpower, and fear, and not accepting loss, and a powerful weapon with strict institutionally-imposed limits, work for GL in a way they just wouldn't for other heroes.

Superman going evil, meh. Red Son is as close as I'm comfortable with that, and even then he's not really evil. Kingdom Come is a far better interpretation of tragic Kal than Injustice.
Batman is already a dark character, him turning evil does little to excite and makes little sense given his obsessively moral nature.
Wonder Woman turning evil just flies in the face of her character. She might make controversial decisions, but her compassion is her key characteristic.
Arthur is in a similar spot as king. Controversial, not evil.
Barry is quite innocent. Wally I could see going down a dark path, Walter West style.
Same with Ollie. But the worst is a kind of gray area.
J'onn is too empathetic given his telepathy and survivor's guilt.

Now none of these characters really have a formula for going truly evil. Sacrificing innocent lives and fighting former colleagues. Flashpoint was already a reach for Arthur and Diana.

But Hal...Hal's kind of a messed up guy with problematic relationships. He was selected for his stubborn willpower and often rebels against his bosses out of moral righteousness. He's part of a (frankly undemocratic) corps of intergalactic law enforcement weilding tremendous power. And his main weapon is a tool that realizes the wishes of the user. Those elements lend themselves to a story about temptation and abuse of power stemming from personal loss.

[achilles]

I'm really not sure how controversial this is, but I don't like DC's habit of telling us which characters we are going to like, as if we have no choice in the matter.

[Agent Z]

I'm really not sure how controversial this is, but I don't like DC's habit of telling us which characters we are going to like, as if we have no choice in the matter.

And just how are they doing that?

[PCN24454]

And just how are they doing that?

I think it’s in how highly certain heroes and characters are regarded in universe. It often comes across as though the writers expect us to automatically share their opinion.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

How about the Golden Age Jester?

He never turned bad. We saw somebody claiming to be a grandchild of his pose as a villainous Jester in one of the Palmiotti-penned Freedom Fighters mini-series that saw publication before Flashpoint was published, but not Chuck Lane.

[Will Evans]

He never turned bad. We saw somebody claiming to be a grandchild of his pose as a villainous Jester in one of the Palmiotti-penned Freedom Fighters mini-series that saw publication before Flashpoint was published, but not Chuck Lane.

Actually he did. The original Jester Chick was in that series too.

And was revealed as evil.

[skyvolt2000]

And just how are they doing that?

Dc folks gave a black editor Impulse book. In hope it would fail under his watch. It was a hit. He got fired for it.

The either or mess we constantly see.

Get rid of Wally and show only Barry.
Get rid of 2 Batgirls and show only Babs.
Get Hal solo and stick the others with den mother duty.
Get minis to folks no one asked and make excuses for the ones folks ask for. (Sugar & Spice)
Restrict character to the same old story and others get free reign. (Cyborg)
Get certain characters to folks who DON'T care for them. (Gail Simone & Ethan Van Sciever with Firestorm)
Hire writers who know NOTHING about a character. (Gene Conway Jason Rusch)
Shelf someone for being "TOXIC" (Stephanie Brown)
Use another character to throw shade on another one (X-Men Office) (Sideways towards Teen Titans)
Can't use this character or that character.
Can't change the look of a character because it's ICONIC while ICONIC folks get outfit changes.

[Agent Z]

Dc folks gave a black editor Impulse book. In hope it would fail under his watch. It was a hit. He got fired for it.

Any evidence for this please?

[comicstar100]

I'm really not sure how controversial this is, but I don't like DC's habit of telling us which characters we are going to like, as if we have no choice in the matter.

Really I feel like usually this is exactly the opposite. Didio is well known for disliking Dick Grayson yet fans love the character. DC pushes Damian as Robin yet a huge part of the fanbase would still rather have Tim Drake. Snyder wants to push Signal as the next big bat family character but he clearly hasn't taken off like DC wants.

[achilles]

Really I feel like usually this is exactly the opposite. Didio is well known for disliking Dick Grayson yet fans love the character. DC pushes Damian as Robin yet a huge part of the fanbase would still rather have Tim Drake. Snyder wants to push Signal as the next big bat family character but he clearly hasn't taken off like DC wants.

Well, I never said it works, just that they keep trying it.

[Gaius]

DCAU Harley Quinn was just as much of an annoying Scrappy/creator's pet of a character as her current iteration is and also equally unsympathetic.

[Frontier]

DCAU Harley Quinn was just as much of an annoying Scrappy/creator's pet of a character as her current iteration is and also equally unsympathetic.

At least DCAU Harley was treated like a Supevillain and criminal despite her circumstances, and her wackiness and comedic bent wasn't a "get out of jail free" card like it is now.