I think fans were upset that Cass got tossed and buried long before Babs took back her old gig.
Babs as Batgirl is not the issue. It's Cass being called toxic and edited out of books that was the issue. It's not like Cass didn't have an old ID or could have gotten a new gig while Babs was Batgirl.
Folks use Cyborg's dismemberment to justify NOT improve his looks or being more than man vs machine. "He has to look like that because it's his ICONIC look! Everybody has to have their iconic look!"
Static has changed his look 3 different times.
We won't even LOOK in the closets of Miles Morales and Peter Parker.
I don't see Falcon running around in that red and white one piece with his chest showing anymore.
Wonder Woman is not walking around dressed like Lynda Carter.
How many looks has Supergirl had?
Yet Cyborg has to look that way DESPITE Doom Patrol Cyborg walking around looking like a castoff from Run DMC or LL Cool J video or Def Jam Fight For New York character.
I think I've distilled my issue with mainsteam comic book writers in relation to mangaka. comic book writers (particularly at DC) are almost normalized to writing like fans of their medium instead of actually storytellers. that, to me, it seems like what leads to comic book writers echoing the same love/hate relationship with the medium the fans are susceptible to.
it's this weird dichotomy where they're either romanticizing the old tropes or concepts and telling us how much we should love them, or they're weirdly ashamed of the medium and fall into this Nolan/Zack Snyder zone where they are "making it cool". instead of a good story it ends up feeling like a mix of recycled mediocrity and parlor tricks strung together to hedge their bets on a "story that sells", rather than just producing good content that people wanna pay for.
I compare them to mangaka, mostly because that's my point of reference for graphic media tbh, but also because I noticed that because they typically aren't writing characters they are fans of or grew up on, they use their characters more holistically in service of their story. their personality, their powers or abilities, their design, etc are invoked in service to that character's role in the story they inhabit; they're not breaking consistency just because the writer doesn't get the purpose of this element or that element. A characters power and the rules and applications aren't just stuff they do, it informs how the characte is styled (at all times) how they behave, how they interact; it all informs each other and a world is built around that same holistic mentality. comics often lack that depth with their characters and story elements because they have to cliff notes it to make it easy for the next guy.
like, i get that the generational storytelling by committee conceit of mainstream comics means that the writers require more creativity when trying to deal with the characters in a compelling way, but, instead of exercising finesse a lot of writers do what readers do and go "well Bronze Tiger's in it because I like Bronze Tiger, even though I'm only really a "fan" of like one or two ideas about Bronze Tiger. so anything else involving him that I don't like is a mistake" and start making contrived ways of contort the characters (and the story) into whatever mediocre lowest common denominator thing they end up with.
hmmm... not really controversial, just a grievance I guess. it's weird tho, I'm saying this at a time where I'm the most excited about DC comics as I've ever been. hmm
Last edited by lemonpeace; 03-05-2021 at 11:51 PM.
THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki
also, check out "The Signal Tape" a Duke Thomas fan project.
currently following:
- DC: Red Hood: The Hill
- Marvel: TBD
- Manga (Shonen/Seinen): One Piece, My Hero, Dandadan, Jujutsu Kaisen, Kaiju No. 8, Reincarnation of The Veteran Soldier, Oblivion Rouge, ORDEAL, The Breaker: Eternal Force
"power does not corrupt, power always reveals."
Here's my opinion: Despite agreeing with much of what lemonpeace said, "creatives are ashamed of comic books" is not and never has been a valid criticism. It's essentially a non-argument rooted in "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Last edited by lemonpeace; 03-06-2021 at 01:08 AM.
THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki
also, check out "The Signal Tape" a Duke Thomas fan project.
currently following:
- DC: Red Hood: The Hill
- Marvel: TBD
- Manga (Shonen/Seinen): One Piece, My Hero, Dandadan, Jujutsu Kaisen, Kaiju No. 8, Reincarnation of The Veteran Soldier, Oblivion Rouge, ORDEAL, The Breaker: Eternal Force
"power does not corrupt, power always reveals."
I do sometimes get the feeling that it can come off that way when it comes to some comic book writers, to varying extents and intensities.
And now that I think about it, there are times when it comes off like some readers and fans are like that, where they generally (or at the more worse moments, ostensibly) enjoy the medium and conventions of (superhero, but not necessarily/not always) comics, but also end up having caveats, where they feel the need to apologize and/or justify for and/or fix and/or surreptitiously (if not brunt and brusquely) omit certain things, characters, and aspects that they don't like or that they feel isn't liked or cool from a mainstream perspective, etc., for example.
At times, it can often come down to perspectives and personal preferences. But often still it can come off as feeling, if it doesn't end up as outright being, a very specific look or takeaway that often ends up being narrow and rigid.
Last edited by J. D. Guy; 03-06-2021 at 01:46 AM.
1. All non superpowered superheroes should wear body armor.
2. The more invulnerable a super is the less clothing they would wear.
3. Armor doesn’t really make much sense for invulnerable heroes because anything powerful enough to hurt them isn’t going to be stopped by armor.
4. Characters with force fields should still wear armor and clothing unless it is stated that the force field offers temperature control.
agreed! this is part of what I was talking about, about comics not taking a thoughtful holistic approach. these writer a lot of the time see the powers as an afterthought, "shiny wrapping", so they don't put the creative thought necessary into how it should play off design and personality.
THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki
also, check out "The Signal Tape" a Duke Thomas fan project.
currently following:
- DC: Red Hood: The Hill
- Marvel: TBD
- Manga (Shonen/Seinen): One Piece, My Hero, Dandadan, Jujutsu Kaisen, Kaiju No. 8, Reincarnation of The Veteran Soldier, Oblivion Rouge, ORDEAL, The Breaker: Eternal Force
"power does not corrupt, power always reveals."