Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[CosmiComic]

She lacks the heat vision, ice breath, x-ray vision and super ventriloquism. Beyond being a flying brick, she has superior fighting skills and magical tools that he doesn't have. I feel that that is enough to distinguish them. And being the female "response" to Superman and being comparable in feats is one of the purposes of Wonder Woman anyway.

I would be fine with removing flight if we got the Invisible Plane back because that is a unique feature to her, and there are potential creative uses for her to work in tandem with the Plane during fight scenes (a WW and Plane vs. Giganta fight has potential to be more interesting than Diana simply flying up to her and punching her). But since DC can't bring the plane back without also making it not be from the Amazons and instead a gift from the government/Batman, I'd rather they just keep the flight power at this point.

Idk how her being the female response to Superman factors into that. But I feel like while her magical tools are cool, it's not really a different power.

I like the invisible plane though.

[CosmiComic]

I'm guessing this is in regards to a team setting, since I feel in her solo series she's done more creative things with her powers than in the Justice League.

I need to check out more the most recent WW comics. But I feel like it would really set her apart in a team setting if she's not just the standard superpower ser

[CosmiComic]

Sadly, Amazonian society isn't as advanced as it used to be. We're lucky if they remember the Purple Healing Ray.



It would be cool if they emphasize her ability to talk to animals more. She also knows every langue on Earth (which she did by learning it, so I guess it's not a power.) She also can sense movement in air pressure which is how she can tell where bullets are coming from without looking.

There's older powers they could sift through if they wanted too, though some of those are better left in the 40's I think (*cough* ventriloquism *cough*). I think they're bringing back astral projection.

Ventriloquism is an odd power, and a lot of Golden Age stuff is best left there, but astral projection, multilingualism and even animal communication are cool.

[Frontier]

Agreed. Beyond those two (and some other Bat-related characters), I can't think of any street levelers I find very interesting.

Is Spider-Man even street level? Considering what some of his villains are capable of with their powers/weapons, he and his world don't spring to mind when I hear "street level."

He fights a lot of crime bosses.

[SiegePerilous02]

I've read a lot of characters varying between street level to global to cosmic, I don't really agree that the stakes change because of power-level. They all get hurt, they all face challenges in their moral character, they all loose sometimes, they all beat the bad-guy in the end.

Yeah, it's all scaled differently but ultimately superheroes all deal with challenges.

Some of it is just stuff we can see in crime/cop dramas, so I generally prefer the wilder stuff we can't get elsewhere Even with Batman, I tend to mentally check out if street crime is used too much.

Idk how her being the female response to Superman factors into that. But I feel like while her magical tools are cool, it's not really a different power.

I like the invisible plane though.

It factors in because she was literally created to be a character with "all the power of Superman but all the allure and grace of a beautiful woman" (not exact quote, but that's the gist). She cannot be Superman-lite because she was created to be the female equivalent of the Superman archetype. You can't really get that unless she's comparable in strength and other stats; not necessarily exactly even, but damn close. Her superior fighting skills, lack of weaknesses (at least consistent ones) and tools make them distinct enough, IMO.

He fights a lot of crime bosses.

I guess, but people like the Sandman, the Rhino and Venom come to mind before the likes of Crime Master or Blackie Gaxton.

Though others bring up the good point that even these supervillains have smaller scale plots/goals, so I guess street level is somewhat applicable

[CosmiComic]

It factors in because she was literally created to be a character with "all the power of Superman but all the allure and grace of a beautiful woman" (not exact quote, but that's the gist). She cannot be Superman-lite because she was created to be the female equivalent of the Superman archetype. You can't really get that unless she's comparable in strength and other stats; not necessarily exactly even, but damn close. Her superior fighting skills, lack of weaknesses (at least consistent ones) and tools make them distinct enough, IMO.

I didn't know she was created for that reason. But now wr have a female superman. She's called Supergirl. I think Wonder Woman can be her own thing. Personally I think those powers and abilities aren't really distinct enough.

[SiegePerilous02]

I didn't know she was created for that reason. But now wr have a female superman. She's called Supergirl. I think Wonder Woman can be her own thing. Personally I think those powers and abilities aren't really distinct enough.

She pre-dates Supergirl and Marston couldn't have predicted (or cared) about a Supergirl when he created WW. What the Superman franchise does isn't her problem and she shouldn't have to be changed to accommodate it (and vice versa). Neither should the likes of Captain Marvel/Shazam (who Superman copied the flight power and a lot of other mythos elements from) and MM. And by this logic we shouldn't need a Supergirl because we already had a WW and Mary Marvel

I feel she is distinct enough between the tools/abilities she has and he doesn't and the myth-based background and other types of villains Superman doesn't typically face. Otherwise, if more effort is made to make her less like Superman, it defeats one of the main purposes of her character.

[CosmiComic]

She pre-dates Supergirl and Marston couldn't have predicted (or cared) about a Supergirl when he created WW. What the Superman franchise does isn't her problem and she shouldn't have to be changed to accommodate it (and vice versa). Neither should the likes of Captain Marvel/Shazam (who Superman copied the flight power and a lot of other mythos elements from) and MM. And by this logic we shouldn't need a Supergirl because we already had a WW and Mary Marvel

I feel she is distinct enough between the tools/abilities she has and he doesn't and the myth-based background and other types of villains Superman doesn't typically face. Otherwise, if more effort is made to make her less like Superman, it defeats one of the main purposes of her character.

But I don't think that's her purpose anymore. Wonder Woman is her own character with her own mythos, and even her own legacy characters. She doesn't need to be like Superman anymore. IMO it's not at all about accommodating Superman

And no, that doesn't mean we don't nee a Supergirl. She's part of Superman's mythos, unlike Wonder Woman.

[Frontier]

I guess, but people like the Sandman, the Rhino and Venom come to mind before the likes of Crime Master or Blackie Gaxton.

Though others bring up the good point that even these supervillains have smaller scale plots/goals, so I guess street level is somewhat applicable

I was thinking more like Hammerhead, Tombstone, and even Doc Ock and Green Goblin have been crime bosses at some point in their career.

But I don't think that's her purpose anymore. Wonder Woman is her own character with her own mythos, and even her own legacy characters. She doesn't need to be like Superman anymore. IMO it's not at all about accommodating Superman

And no, that doesn't mean we don't nee a Supergirl. She's part of Superman's mythos, unlike Wonder Woman.

I don't think it's so much about accommodating Superman so much as having a powerful female hero on par with Superman, with the strength of a man but while still retaining her womanhood.

[CosmiComic]

I was thinking more like Hammerhead, Tombstone, and even Doc Ock and Green Goblin have been crime bosses at some point in their career.

I don't think it's so much about accommodating Superman so much as having a powerful female hero on par with Superman, with the strength of a man but while still retaining her womanhood.

She retains her womanhood no matter what, because she's a woman. But just to be clear, I'm not saying she shouldn't be strong. I'm just saying she can have other abilities besides the basic ones which Superman and others also have, to make her power set more unique.

[Frontier]

She retains her womanhood no matter what, because she's a woman. But just to be clear, I'm not saying she shouldn't be strong. I'm just saying she can have other abilities besides the basic ones which Superman and others also have, to make her power set more unique.

I know that, but it's important in the context of her being seen as being just as strong, more or less, as he is.

Well, Superman can't deflect bullets with bracelets, wield a lasso of truth, or has a tiara weapon, so I echo the sentiment that Diana has more than enough to make her more than just someone with super-strength and flight which is really all she shares with Superman.

[CosmiComic]

I know that, but it's important in the context of her being seen as being just as strong, more or less, as he is.

Well, Superman can't deflect bullets with bracelets, wield a lasso of truth, or has a tiara weapon, so I echo the sentiment that Diana has more than enough to make her more than just someone with super-strength and flight which is really all she shares with Superman.

Doesn't she share enhanced speed too? Idk, maybe its just me but I feel like it's not enough. All the male superheroes like Flash, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Atom and even Green Lantern have extra powers beyond strength, speed and flight, and I think Wonder Woman deserves that too. The "gadgets" she has are cool and she should keep them but they're not powers in the same way

[mathew101281]

No they aren't. People just think this because of Batman and Spider-Man's popularity.

And Dare Devil, and Green Arrow, and Black Canary, and the Punisher, ( I could go on)

[Agent Z]

And Dare Devil, and Green Arrow, and Black Canary, and the Punisher, ( I could go on)

Green Arrow regularly struggles to maintain a solo series and is more often thought of as a poor man's Batman (Arrow didn't help that image). Black Canary's street level stuff is mostly with Green Arrow (which has arguably done more harm than help to her) and Birds of Prey (which hasn't been good since Simone's first run and her second run tried to make the team less street level). That just leaves Punisher and Daredevil and it is quite telling the latter is one of Marvel's least marketed characters, having only one movie (which failed) and one good t.v. show to his name.

I can name plenty of interesting non-street levelers as well such as John Stewart, Zatanna, Aquaman, Wally West, Jessica Cruz, Jo Mullein, Black Panther, Monica Rambeau, etc. Being street level is not inherently interesting and there are plenty of street levelers that audiences wouldn't care about.

[John Venus]

To reply to arguments in this thread in a short and concise way:


-Superman is the first superhero (yes, you can split hairs and point out predecessors but the point is, he got the ball rolling) so technically every superhero except for maybe Batman is a variation of him.

-Daredevil has the most consistent quality of any title published by either Marvel or DC. Not his fault his tv show got cancelled because of corporate beef.

-Street level heroes can get old fast. Even the Punisher works best as a foil for other heroes, otherwise he's just like every other action hero. Spider-Man and Batman are adaptable so you can do stories with Spider-Man in space and Batman fighting aliens in order to keep the stories fresh and unpredictable. Pure street level heroes eventually write themselves out of existence because of the murky morality of going around beating people you don't like while wearing a mask.

-Wonder Woman is not and has never been a 'female Superman'. She may have come across that way in ensemble settings under lesser writers but even in her original debut comics, she had an entirely different backstory, personality and mythos different from Superman. Flying, superstrength and invulnerability are basic flying brick abilities. Diana can also talk to animals, astral project herself to the realm of the Gods, use the unbreakable Lasso of Truth and unlike Superman, she also spent years training herself in how to use her powers. She's different enough from Superman, imo.