Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[marhawkman]

I don't mean time travel. I just thought Wonder Woman could use more powers than just those she shares with Superman. I like power sets to be consistent but also somewhat distinct, at least for the main heroes. And just being stuck with super strength and flight is a bit boring sometimes.

I don't think time travel is inherently problematic. That's just how writers write it.

The issue I think that was being alluded to is the idea of time travel being fundamentally easy because a character can go "I feel like time traveling now". Superman being able to use his innate powers to time travel... sort of works if he's the only Kryptonian. But only then. Heh, imagine if Zod and his flunkies started doing that?

[Tzigone]

The issue I think that was being alluded to is the idea of time travel being fundamentally easy because a character can go "I feel like time traveling now". Superman being able to use his innate powers to time travel... sort of works if he's the only Kryptonian. But only then. Heh, imagine if Zod and his flunkies started doing that?

More than that, without a consistent set of rules, the question becomes "why didn't Supes just go back and save that person that just got killed?" And "some things are fixed" only works if there is a consistent rule as to what ones are and aren't to me. Obviously not establishing that rule makes it easy for writers, but I find it very frustrating as a reader because it's basically just "because I said so" and often used to maximize angst.

I just thought Wonder Woman could use more powers than just those she shares with Superman.I like power sets to be consistent but also somewhat distinct, at least for the main heroes. And just being stuck with super strength and flight is a bit boring sometimes.

Well, I like her not bulletproof, because I really like her needing to deflect those bullets. And am only unwilling to sacrifice flight because other fans like it so much (I feel similar about some of Supes' powers). I don't like adding new powers (something I've discussed several times), and while plumbing the depths of old powers is interesting, there are few I actually like that I've seen presented. I don't care for talking to animals because it often ends up anthropomorphizing them or used as a joke. I don't like the control for the lasso because it creeps me out. And I do like the lasso to be uni-purpose, really, which comes back to limiting powersets. I did enjoy the telepathic radio, but it's not really a power, and doesn't really have a niche now that I can think of. I don't like as a generally magical person (not my taste in stories), and I do want all other Amazons to have all the powers she does, save those from the lasso, with only her skill at using her abilities setting her apart, so whatever abilities she has, those abilities have to work in a society. Because, to me, she needs to representative of that society - she's the best of them (in certain fields), but still one of them, rather than apart from them.

[Restingvoice]

Speaking of Time Travel, since there are time travelers in DC, what are their rules? Booster, Rip, Legion... can they change the past or there's always something preventing them, or do they simply only find a different way to arrive at the event they tried to avoid in the first place?

Don't include Hypertime or 5th dimensional imps just yet please because that's an extra layer of headache

[Tzigone]

Speaking of Time Travel, since there are time travelers in DC, what are their rules? Booster, Rip, Legion... can they change the past or there's always something preventing them, or do they simply only find a different way to arrive at the event they tried to avoid in the first place?

In early Booster Gold, Skeets only allowed him to go back because he knew that he was already there (newspaper clipping, if I recall). Later with Rip and Booster in the 2007 series, I was really annoyed because it had those fixed points (used to for angst for Booster in Barbara's paralysis and Ted's shooting and annoyed me with Batman, of course, knowing about his attempts all along) and also used "it already did happen" and said Booster was actually responsible for loads of other heroes previously-canonical accomplishments (like stopping Trigon the first time). I really did hate that - stealing the accomplishments of other heroes to build up Booster. It's a credit to the comic that it was so well executed that enjoyed enough that I read until the end, given how much I dislike several of the foundational aspects of the comic (though might not have happened if I'd read real-time).

Booster's sister could be saved and her boyfriend not from Star City's destruction because he was on a list of fatalities, as I recall, but that was by Skeets, I think, and he may be operating on his own programmed rules instead of any actual hard, physical rules, so that's why he doesn't ever change the past. But I could be misremembering that one.

Later some things aren't set or fixed or whatnot, because Booster arranged for a save of Sam and Lois Lane (which I guess would have outed Clark, since Jon was there and didn't end up killed). I think I remember the excuse being that it happened recently enough not to be set, but I wouldn't swear to it.

[CosmiComic]

The issue I think that was being alluded to is the idea of time travel being fundamentally easy because a character can go "I feel like time traveling now". Superman being able to use his innate powers to time travel... sort of works if he's the only Kryptonian. But only then. Heh, imagine if Zod and his flunkies started doing that?

Ok, but does travelling through time immediately solve everything? Because I don't think it does. It can cause problems too. Plus, not all time travel is necessarily going back to the beginning of time or 1000 years ago. Maybe it's more limited to just reversing time about an hour or so. And even then, nothing is immediately fixed

[CosmiComic]

More than that, without a consistent set of rules, the question becomes "why didn't Supes just go back and save that person that just got killed?" And "some things are fixed" only works if there is a consistent rule as to what ones are and aren't to me. Obviously not establishing that rule makes it easy for writers, but I find it very frustrating as a reader because it's basically just "because I said so" and often used to maximize angst.

Well, I like her not bulletproof, because I really like her needing to deflect those bullets. And am only unwilling to sacrifice flight because other fans like it so much (I feel similar about some of Supes' powers). I don't like adding new powers (something I've discussed several times), and while plumbing the depths of old powers is interesting, there are few I actually like that I've seen presented. I don't care for talking to animals because it often ends up anthropomorphizing them or used as a joke. I don't like the control for the lasso because it creeps me out. And I do like the lasso to be uni-purpose, really, which comes back to limiting powersets. I did enjoy the telepathic radio, but it's not really a power, and doesn't really have a niche now that I can think of. I don't like as a generally magical person (not my taste in stories), and I do want all other Amazons to have all the powers she does, save those from the lasso, with only her skill at using her abilities setting her apart, so whatever abilities she has, those abilities have to work in a society. Because, to me, she needs to representative of that society - she's the best of them (in certain fields), but still one of them, rather than apart from them.

I liked the telepathic abilities like astral projection and even talking to animals in theory. And what's wrong with her being magical? Isn't she based on the gods?

Honestly, I don't see why she needs to be exactly like the rest of the Amazonians.

[marhawkman]

Ok, but does travelling through time immediately solve everything? Because I don't think it does. It can cause problems too. Plus, not all time travel is necessarily going back to the beginning of time or 1000 years ago. Maybe it's more limited to just reversing time about an hour or so. And even then, nothing is immediately fixed

The problem is having it as an ordinary ability. what LIMITS the ability to time travel?

[Tzigone]

I liked the telepathic abilities like astral projection and even talking to animals in theory. And what's wrong with her being magical? Isn't she based on the gods?

Honestly, I don't see why she needs to be exactly like the rest of the Amazonians.

I don't want her to be magical, because I don't usually magically-themed stories that much (similar to me not preferring space-based). Also, I preferred when mythology didn't play in as heavily. Why does she need to be exactly like the rest of the Amazonians - for one it mean more for her to be champion if she was competing against her peers not and not a goddess among mortals. If you don't care about the competition, I can see not caring about that. It just feels like getting the lasso and such is so much more earned than way than if it's just bestowed due to genetics (or even just blessings because they like her/her mom). I generally don't care for prophesied or blessed heroes. I like the ones that earn their greatness. Being born with abilities is okay - but not so much born to be special. Like the future is written already and their choices don't matter. I hate it even more when retconned in. Like I don't like Superman being special among Kryptonians, having abilities they don't, born the first undesigned child in ages, etc. Let her choices and her actions be what make her special, IMO. That further enables keeping the Amazons special, too.

More than that, though, going back to the beginning of the Amazons, they were achieved so much (in the technologically advanced world) and did so much on their own efforts. And they were sending their best to help man. But there was a kind of a point that they could achieve great things (including superpowers) through effort and teaching and such. Making her god among them takes away their achievements and their capacity to achieve that sort of power. More than that, it's no longer one of them coming to help man's world. Diana losing her secret identity kinda bugs me in that she's just sort of preaching to our world without any understanding of how it actually feels to live in it, without having to wait in line or pay bills or any of those minor nuisances, as she's a celebrity from day one. Making her above the other Amazons makes it even worse. I mean, she was always a princess, and one presumes that comes with privileges, but now she's set up as someone they would maybe worship instead of one of them. I don't like that. So I dislike how it disassociates her from people, and more than that, I dislike how it removes the societal achievements that the Amazons once had. They don't achieve greatness - only Diana. And especially now, sadly, as they've been dragged through the mud a time or three in terms of honor or morality (to say the least), there is no reason really for man's world to see that we should want to learn from them. Their belif in gender-based superiority (indeed, the fact of it in older comics) is a problematic foundational element that makes it hard to work with the premise that their society should be a model. But taking away their accomplishments (tech, gaining physical/mental abilities, etc.) just makes it much worse. And making them conquered frequently and murderers was far worse than that.

[SuperX]

If she is gonna be just like the rest of the Amazon's then they need to lower her power levels greatly.

Why have a invisible jet if you can fly?

Why have bullet deflecting gauntlets of you are invulnerable?

Why act like you are the greatest fighter ever,while at supermans level, but still not own every being in the universe?

The DCU movies had her bang her bracers together to create a massive blast/shockwave,why not have that as her normal powers?

[CosmiComic]

The problem is having it as an ordinary ability. what LIMITS the ability to time travel?

Maybe the hero can only travel so far back. Maybe if they go too far in time or change things too much, it creates potential problems they can't foresee.

[CosmiComic]

I don't want her to be magical, because I don't usually magically-themed stories that much (similar to me not preferring space-based). Also, I preferred when mythology didn't play in as heavily. Why does she need to be exactly like the rest of the Amazonians - for one it mean more for her to be champion if she was competing against her peers not and not a goddess among mortals. If you don't care about the competition, I can see not caring about that. It just feels like getting the lasso and such is so much more earned than way than if it's just bestowed due to genetics (or even just blessings because they like her/her mom). I generally don't care for prophesied or blessed heroes. I like the ones that earn their greatness. Being born with abilities is okay - but not so much born to be special. Like the future is written already and their choices don't matter. I hate it even more when retconned in. Like I don't like Superman being special among Kryptonians, having abilities they don't, born the first undesigned child in ages, etc. Let her choices and her actions be what make her special, IMO. That further enables keeping the Amazons special, too.

More than that, though, going back to the beginning of the Amazons, they were achieved so much (in the technologically advanced world) and did so much on their own efforts. And they were sending their best to help man. But there was a kind of a point that they could achieve great things (including superpowers) through effort and teaching and such. Making her god among them takes away their achievements and their capacity to achieve that sort of power. More than that, it's no longer one of them coming to help man's world. Diana losing her secret identity kinda bugs me in that she's just sort of preaching to our world without any understanding of how it actually feels to live in it, without having to wait in line or pay bills or any of those minor nuisances, as she's a celebrity from day one. Making her above the other Amazons makes it even worse. I mean, she was always a princess, and one presumes that comes with privileges, but now she's set up as someone they would maybe worship instead of one of them. I don't like that. So I dislike how it disassociates her from people, and more than that, I dislike how it removes the societal achievements that the Amazons once had. They don't achieve greatness - only Diana. And especially now, sadly, as they've been dragged through the mud a time or three in terms of honor or morality (to say the least), there is no reason really for man's world to see that we should want to learn from them. Their belif in gender-based superiority (indeed, the fact of it in older comics) is a problematic foundational element that makes it hard to work with the premise that their society should be a model. But taking away their accomplishments (tech, gaining physical/mental abilities, etc.) just makes it much worse. And making them conquered frequently and murderers was far worse than that.

I don't think she ever really needed a secret id in the first place. It's a tired and outdated trope IMO. Frankly, heroes with secret ids look like they're above other people. And honestly, I don't get why people think no secret id = no personal life. It's not inherently true. I'm not sure what preaching you're talking about either.

While you make some good points, how exactly does she not earn her powers just because others have them? I'm not totally following you there. I like Amazonians having advanced technology, but how exactly are they supposed to get their powers?

And isn't she magical anyway, just by being based on mythology?

[Restingvoice]

In early Booster Gold, Skeets only allowed him to go back because he knew that he was already there (newspaper clipping, if I recall). Later with Rip and Booster in the 2007 series, I was really annoyed because it had those fixed points (used to for angst for Booster in Barbara's paralysis and Ted's shooting and annoyed me with Batman, of course, knowing about his attempts all along) and also used "it already did happen" and said Booster was actually responsible for loads of other heroes previously-canonical accomplishments (like stopping Trigon the first time). I really did hate that - stealing the accomplishments of other heroes to build up Booster. It's a credit to the comic that it was so well executed that enjoyed enough that I read until the end, given how much I dislike several of the foundational aspects of the comic (though might not have happened if I'd read real-time).

Booster's sister could be saved and her boyfriend not from Star City's destruction because he was on a list of fatalities, as I recall, but that was by Skeets, I think, and he may be operating on his own programmed rules instead of any actual hard, physical rules, so that's why he doesn't ever change the past. But I could be misremembering that one.

Later some things aren't set or fixed or whatnot, because Booster arranged for a save of Sam and Lois Lane (which I guess would have outed Clark, since Jon was there and didn't end up killed). I think I remember the excuse being that it happened recently enough not to be set, but I wouldn't swear to it.

In other words just like everything else comics get stupid the longer it goes because they prefer to just make things up to fit the plot they have in mind

[Stanlos]

If she is gonna be just like the rest of the Amazon's then they need to lower her power levels greatly.?

Or they could restore the Amazons to Herc levels.

[John Venus]

Even in Marston's era, Diana was shown to be stronger and faster than the other Amazons.

[marhawkman]

Maybe the hero can only travel so far back. Maybe if they go too far in time or change things too much, it creates potential problems they can't foresee.

Well this is the thought train of using time travel responsibly, IE not often. But doesn't actually limit how often they COULD.