Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[witchboy]

Wait what? What stories? I've never heard of this.



In like 80% of the Wonder Woman books Diana has been written as the only child of the amazons. Donna Troy only appeared in 4 Wonder Woman stories pre crisis. Post Crisis Donna wasn't mentioned until the late 90s when Byrne revised her history. Then in 2011 she was taken out again and only appeared in the book during the Fingh run, but she still wasn't a child of the amazons. So Donna was only in Wonder Woman world for about 13 years (or less). For the rest of it Diana was the only child of the amazons.

Nubia was the only other exception to the only child of the amazons thing, but she wasn't raised with the amazons, and she was only written in the 70s as Diana's sister.



Diana had to go through a contest as a fully developed woman in order to leave the island. Why is Donna allowed to leave when she is a teenager?

And why does Donna even leave when she hasn't been in paradise for very long?



Dick Grayson is similar to Bruce, but they are still drawn pretty differently. Donna Troy looks EXACTLY like Diana (obviously because half of her origins say she was a magic clone/ younger version)

It's a good question about why Donna was allowed to leave. I would think pre Crisis it's because she was adopted and that status may have permitted her to return to where she came from.

[king81992]

I still don't understand why it received the hate it did.

The critics / haters who call themselves 'comic fans' have ulterior motives and agendas. They do not care for female characters or writers who aren't male, white or right wing.

[Midnight_v]

The critics / haters who call themselves 'comic fans' have ulterior motives and agendas. They do not care for female characters or writers who aren't male, white or right wing.

Honestly....this smacks loudly of lazy reasoning.

There are a lot of reasons that refuse to stop liking things that you don't and vice versa.
Realistically critique makes this better over time but even if it doesn't the internet blows everything out of proportion.
You make a big announcement that most people don't like and you get 100K dislikes and people laugh about it, and it feels HUUUUGGEEE, but its really not that big a deal when algorithms show you what you're interested in.
Personally, I get it, as a microcosm, even on these boards, and in this thread its a chance to spew opinions on what's liked and disliked.
Though I've stared to think that :
"Man I really don't like those New Air Jordans, the shoe architecture is all over the place and the colors available look like vomit" into "Bro! Why you gotta be hating!" is a valid response to unpopular opinions/Criticisms.
With that book no one really needed an agenda.

Its entirely possible.... probably even likely....that perhaps that they don't like Cartoon style, unattractive characters, author self inserts, or narratives that don't make the most sense. Not to mention the fact a pretty large contingent of people were actually waiting for Nightstar. Lets not forget that Mar'i Grayson was a character that people loved and had been wanting to see since kingdom come.

If you listen you'll find that most people don't dislike Female Characters. Most people actually are in fact NOT adverse to minority characters, either. Billion dollar black panther movie, super successful Luke Cage show... Blade. But there is as strong trend it seems of people being weary of the culture wars and harbor a vitriolic hate for progressivism. Or perceived progressivism in this case.


That being said I been thinking about an controversial Opinion.

Dark Knight: Metal was the worst thing that D.C. has ever done. I still am in shock that they pulled the trigger on "Lets just make Everyone BATMAN" it made me sad.

I think Event Leviathan should have been the thing that rippled throughout the DC universe and that more than Doomsday clock and Metal. . . They should have threw their eggs into that.

Because its smaller. Its set on the fate of earth. "Its not FURTHER AND FURTHER INTO THE DEPPRESSOVERSE!" See in story telling they can always get bigger, so the progression from
Street~World~Galaxy~Universe~Time~Multiverse seems somewhat inevitable. However... there's few jumping off and reset points that can be pointed at and say "Look. The Entirety of the world is going on, not just the what's happening with the Super friends." and in fact the actions and negligence of the superfriends are what force or ALLOW the world to go through major change.

but... I guess its hard to beat a quick buck.

[phonogram12]

The critics / haters who call themselves 'comic fans' have ulterior motives and agendas. They do not care for female characters or writers who aren't male, white or right wing.

And they also generally don't care for female characters who aren't conventionally attractive.

[John Venus]

Fine, this is my assembled pitch for the origin of Donna Troy.

When Diana was still young, living in Themyscira, the Titan Thia (or someone else) grew to resent her as the most beloved creation of the lesser Olympian goddesses. Desperate to destroy the young child, she conjured a living nightmare to consume Diana and emotionally torture her for the rest of time. The Olympian goddesses (or someone else) couldn't stop or contain the creature, so in shame they created a magic clone for the beast to consume instead, this was Donna Troy. Donna had all of Diana's memories of a happy childhood with the amazons, but her day and night were spent living Diana's worst nightmares, over and over again. The fears and failures that Diana never experienced. Not the destruction of the world, not the death of all her peers, but of being unloved, unwanted, unworthy.

Many years later, when Diana was a hero in Man's world she found out about Donna and through an epic saga managed to free her from the living nightmare. She bonded with Donna and tried to take care of her. Yada yada yada, Donna is brought to man's world and cared for by Diana's friends, she eventually forms the original Teen Titans. She starts a life in our world and through this overcomes her past as a cosmically bullied punching back and stops earning for the love and happiness that Diana experienced, because she herself gets that in the present. She becomes a hero.

If you want a 2 sentence origin:
Donna is a magic clone of Diana with all of her childhood memories, but who was raised inside a living nightmare. One day she escaped and started a life in our world while learning to overcome her abused past and come out stronger.

This sounds like a left over X-Men plot from the Claremont era only with Greek Gods. Chris is that you? It works for someone besides Donna Troy.

Donna as a cosmic punching bag meant to prop up Diana will only make people resent Diana. It doesn't make Donna's connection to the Amazons or Diana any stronger. This feels like it just exists to prop up Diana and has very less to do with building up Donna character. Also Diana is not without flaws or blindspots, her growing up in an all female society gives her a different perspective and she is meant to be an aspirational figure but that doesn't mean she isn't without flaws.

Donna's appeal is that she comes from a human origin whereas Diana comes from a mythical one. The wish fulfillment aspect of the character is that she gets to have powers similar to Diana's, adopted by the Amazons and represents someone trying to live up to Diana's example. Thus keeping her rooted in human experiences is how you make the character work.

Wait what? What stories? I've never heard of this.

In like 80% of the Wonder Woman books Diana has been written as the only child of the amazons. Donna Troy only appeared in 4 Wonder Woman stories pre crisis. Post Crisis Donna wasn't mentioned until the late 90s when Byrne revised her history. Then in 2011 she was taken out again and only appeared in the book during the Fingh run, but she still wasn't a child of the amazons. So Donna was only in Wonder Woman world for about 13 years (or less). For the rest of it Diana was the only child of the amazons.

Nubia was the only other exception to the only child of the amazons thing, but she wasn't raised with the amazons, and she was only written in the 70s as Diana's sister.

Diana had to go through a contest as a fully developed woman in order to leave the island. Why is Donna allowed to leave when she is a teenager?

And why does Donna even leave when she hasn't been in paradise for very long?

Dick Grayson is similar to Bruce, but they are still drawn pr

Donna originated in the Titans books, that's why she didn't make any appearances Pre Crisis WW books. However, she appeared consistently in the Wonder books Post Crisis with Byrne, Jimenez and Simone making use of the character. DC mismanaging the Wonder Family and not capitalizing on the budding Wonder Family of the late 90's and early 00's is on them.

Diana left to fight a God, Donna (in my proposed take) left to find her family. Why would the Amazons put her through a contest for that?

Whether it's Bruce and Dick or Diana and Donna, how similar they are depends on the artist. Bruce having adopted a bunch of similar of looking kids is often a sign of amusement and nobody tries too hard to explain why they look like. Otherwise where we would getting stories where Bruce is the father of Dick Grayson because he slept with Mary Grayson when they were teenagers but writers don't do that, because it's unnecessary. Same should apply to Diana. Roy, Garth, Kaldur and Wally don't look like their mentors either so it doesn't matter if either of two of the Titans happens to bear a resemblance to their mentors.

Under the right artists, Diana and Donna can look different:

[Alpha]

This sounds like a left over X-Men plot from the Claremont era only with Greek Gods.

Lol, ok. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Donna as a cosmic punching bag meant to prop up Diana will only make people resent Diana.

I don't know what you mean by "prop up". It was done to protect her (in my pitch) without her knowledge. And why would that make people resent her?

Donna (in my proposed take) left to find her family.

I still don't get why you like mystery missing parents as a plot point. It was boring with Rey, it was boring with Naomi, and it was boring with Donna.

It doesn't make Donna's connection to the Amazons or Diana any stronger.

I wasn't trying to make Donna's origin more connected to the amazons. That's never been essential. It's important for her to have a connection with the amazons RIGHT NOW, not in the past. She needs to visit Themyscira more and do things with the amazons. And their connection in my pitch is that she has all the memories from Diana's happy childhood, and thus thinks of Paradise Island as kind of a home, though one she never got to live in as a kid.

Donna's appeal is that she comes from a human origin whereas Diana comes from a mythical one.

No it's not. It wasn't there when she was created, and she had 4 years in Teen Titans without that aspect ever coming up. Donna lives the personal life of a normal woman, but in no way does she need to have been born a normal girl to whom extraordinary things happened. You may want her to be that way, but it's not what defines her, nor is it appealing to me at least. But I'm sure that it doesn't appeal to many others either since Donna isn't really a very popular character (I still like her, just not the origin you mentioned).

Donna originated in the Titans books, that's why she didn't make any appearances Pre Crisis WW books.

She originated in the Robert Kanigher stories as the younger version of Diana. Bob Haney totally copied Wonder Girl's personality from those stories, and what Wolfman did later on was building on the personality that Kanigher had established, a kind and nurturing person, feeling insufficient and envying Diana, the
frustated love for a man decades older (Steve Trevor and then Terry Long).

Donna Troy did appear in pre crisis stories, 4 of them, but that's obviously nothing. But my point was that among the many issues with the many questions that the adopted origin creates, it also diminishes the notion of Diana as the one special child from the amazons, which is what Diana was for 80% of the continuity in the Wonder Woman book.

Under the right artists, Diana and Donna can look different:

Then you should have picked a better picture, because Donna looks exactly like Diana there. The only difference is the hairstyle.

[I'm a Fish]

I still don't understand why it received the hate it did.

Casually Comics did a good review, and she talks about the hate to book got.

[Forlorn]

I don’t necessarily know if this fits here, but it is something I have to talk through.

I’m a new comic fan by all accounts, especially for DC, although I’ve followed the animated movies, cartoons, and movies ever since I was a kid. One thing that has consistently stuck in my craw since starting to actually read comics as a major hobby rather than grabbing books at random on occasion is that there’s quite a few characters I like that I know get little use OR get use, but only in team settings with characters I can’t stand. I hat to admit it, but that’s part of the reason I’m so Batman focused- there’s only one Batman character I actively dislike, and only one I’m indifferent to. It feels so different with other characters- I like a lot of the Titans but I can’t stand Beast Boy. I want to try Green Lantern, but there is like seven lanterns and while Hal seems to be the main one, it doesn’t seem like DC likes that fact, but they also don’t seem to want to alienate anybody and won’t make a definite choice. Flash has a bunch of supporting characters, and that keeps me away. Superman seems to be on the road to replacement and he has a kid, so he’s out. Zatanna has been getting more use, but who knows if that will continue. Power girl might come back, but probably tied to the JSA, which I have no interest in. Hawk man is always getting screwed around.

And I just want to say this too- I almost think at this point it would just be best to keep YJ permanently teenagers. There’s already a ton of competition for the big mantles, and in cases like Yara Flor it seems like DC is going to make even more characters to compete even though we already have 2+ characters that would probably look to take the same one.

[Alpha]

And I just want to say this too- I almost think at this point it would just be best to keep YJ permanently teenagers. There’s already a ton of competition for the big mantles, and in cases like Yara Flor it seems like DC is going to make even more characters to compete even though we already have 2+ characters that would probably look to take the same one.

Couldn't disagree more. What we need is for that generation to be young adults, have their own unique mantles (like Impulse) and find a purpose in the DCU that the rest of their family isn't fulfilling. We need new approaches to improving the world, rather than another vigilante dressed in black stopping bank robbers by throwing batarangs at them and then leaving them there for the police to arrest. Red Hood is a great example of a character that found his own purpose as a crime fighter. He became the Green Hornet of Gotham City, an antihero behaving like a mob boss in order to take down other mob bosses.

[king81992]

Honestly....this smacks loudly of lazy reasoning.

There are a lot of reasons that refuse to stop liking things that you don't and vice versa.
Realistically critique makes this better over time but even if it doesn't the internet blows everything out of proportion.
You make a big announcement that most people don't like and you get 100K dislikes and people laugh about it, and it feels HUUUUGGEEE, but its really not that big a deal when algorithms show you what you're interested in.
Personally, I get it, as a microcosm, even on these boards, and in this thread its a chance to spew opinions on what's liked and disliked.
Though I've stared to think that :
"Man I really don't like those New Air Jordans, the shoe architecture is all over the place and the colors available look like vomit" into "Bro! Why you gotta be hating!" is a valid response to unpopular opinions/Criticisms.
With that book no one really needed an agenda.

Its entirely possible.... probably even likely....that perhaps that they don't like Cartoon style, unattractive characters, author self inserts, or narratives that don't make the most sense. Not to mention the fact a pretty large contingent of people were actually waiting for Nightstar. Lets not forget that Mar'i Grayson was a character that people loved and had been wanting to see since kingdom come.

If you listen you'll find that most people don't dislike Female Characters. Most people actually are in fact NOT adverse to minority characters, either. Billion dollar black panther movie, super successful Luke Cage show... Blade. But there is as strong trend it seems of people being weary of the culture wars and harbor a vitriolic hate for progressivism. Or perceived progressivism in this case.


That being said I been thinking about an controversial Opinion.

Dark Knight: Metal was the worst thing that D.C. has ever done. I still am in shock that they pulled the trigger on "Lets just make Everyone BATMAN" it made me sad.

I think Event Leviathan should have been the thing that rippled throughout the DC universe and that more than Doomsday clock and Metal. . . They should have threw their eggs into that.

Because its smaller. Its set on the fate of earth. "Its not FURTHER AND FURTHER INTO THE DEPPRESSOVERSE!" See in story telling they can always get bigger, so the progression from
Street~World~Galaxy~Universe~Time~Multiverse seems somewhat inevitable. However... there's few jumping off and reset points that can be pointed at and say "Look. The Entirety of the world is going on, not just the what's happening with the Super friends." and in fact the actions and negligence of the superfriends are what force or ALLOW the world to go through major change.

but... I guess its hard to beat a quick buck.

I agree with you on Metal, so much crap and it was escalated in Death Metal.

[Ascended]

That's what they already did by retconning her origin in the first place. Donna's problem began when they tried to make something that was simple and made it confusing for no reason. The Dark Angel thing didn't fix that.

No it didn't fix Donna's problems. And nothing is going to. Not if you want the character to retain any of its history. The Dark Angel stuff didn't try to fix Donna's origin, it just tried to make that history work for the character instead of against it. It gave Donna a purpose and a role and something to do, a reason to show up beyond "Titans together!"

He says she needs a rogue? It's not like she was a solo hero. Nor does she need to be one.

Even ensemble characters should have a bad guy or two of their own. Their own little mythos. Raven gets to have Trigon, Starfire gets Blackfire and the Gordanians. My god, let's at least try to make Donna interesting as an individual.

Origins are supposed to be jumping off points. They aren't substitutes for characterization and this is a mistake a lot of writers have made.

Absolutely agreed, but the question isn't the quality of writing, it's about Donna's broken ass continuity and origin. Krypton explodes whether it's written well or not, yknow?

Trying boiling all of the down to a newbie whose getting into comics.

Wonder Woman's little sister Donna Troy became a Teen Titan, then had her personal reality attacked by the Dark Angel who made Donna experience multiple versions of her own life. Now free from the Angel, Donna oversees the multiverse as its Harbinger, watching for threats to any and else worlds.

I can All-Star Superman it too.

Adopted Amazon.
Teen Titan.
Reality Crisis.
Harbinger.

Also, Donna being the 'harbringer of the Multiverse' feels too close to Wanda's status as a 'nexus being' although I don't mind Donna having a role and stories that are different from Diana's.

Because DC and Marvel never steal each other's ideas? It'd be fine, Donna would be wrapped in both Wonder and Monitor aesthetics, that's more than enough to set her apart.

Oh my god, how are there two of you?

Equally poor taste, it seems.

Donna as the Harbinger and the whole origin thing, that's meta and Morrison as hell and I love me some Morrison meta.

I think just quietly re-setting Donna to her pre-Crisis self as her foundation wouldn't cause any negative ripple effect at this point. At least not that anyone would notice, cuz DC continuity overall right now is totally fucked and will likely never get better anyway.

Ha! No, everything is so screwed right now, Donna would fit right in. Of course, "everything else sucks too" isn't much of an excuse to let things slide either. And even with things buggered, good characters need something to do, and once again Dark Angel proves its worth by providing Donna with a purpose.

And no, I don't consider "being a Titan" to be a viable purpose. That's a title to tell her story in, not the story itself.

To be fair, A LOT of Titans continuity is a hot mess and needs an overhaul.

If simplifying Donna helps with that I'm all for it.

Titans and everyone else, yeah. And all of Donna's origin problems only matter if DC gives a damn about the wider continuity, which it doesn't right now.

Dark Angel does simplify things, in a way, but in a way it doesn't. It provides an easy out for ignoring the continuity problems and saying "this tangle of decades here? That's supposed to be there. Weird sh*t went down, like Mr. Myx went on a rager for thirty years. Don't sweat the details." and also leads into the writing prompt of "what's Donna doing these days? Harbinger things. What's that look like?" But it's still leaving that tangle in place, which isn't simplifying the root issue. But I don't believe the root issue can be fixed without a total and complete reboot, so if history and continuity are gonna matter at all, Dark Angel is as good a solution as any and points Donna in a direction.

[Ascended]

The early days? The early days of Donna were the impossible tales by Robert Kanigher. That's where she gets her whole characterization, such as envying Diana, feeling insufficient, and even the romances. There was nothing mundane about those impossible tales.

Original Wonder Girl was just a young Diana traveling through time right?

If I got to totally reboot everything to my own personal whims, that's what I'd go back to. Wonder Girl, Diana's young protégé and sidekick, would in secret truth be young Diana calling herself "Donna Troy" to prevent mortal minds from imploding.

[marhawkman]

I still don't understand why it received the hate it did.

Simply put: it was hated for multiple reasons by multiple people, some were probably bad, but some were definitely good.

the art is... not great. Also... Why is Mandy so short? She's supposed to be 17 and she's almost a foot shorter than Kommand'r.

It starts off with an origin story where Mandy is talking about how her childhood sucked because of how famous her mother is and how people expected her to be... well.. suepr, and thus she came to resent all of society because of that. This is understandable. But... why does she not know who her father is? Why does she have the family name "Anders"? If you split Koriand'r into Kori Anders it sort of works.... but... "Mandy Anders" is a near anagram for... something I'll get back to later.

It's clear that part of Mandy's issues with her classmates are of Mandy's creation. She hates all but two of them... and apparently doesn't actually know more than the names of most. This means she doesn't feel in any way obligated to even be halfway polite when interacting with them.

Early on there's a lot of time talking about "Tamaranean" things, Also we see that Mandy's natural hair color is actually LIGHTER than Kori's(and dyed black). Also... one of her classmates calls her an "alien" and that's perfectly normal. She at one point talks about how she doesn't know anything about her mother's "home planet". And doesn't even know when Kori's birthday is. But she regularly sees the Titans in Kori's living room. Also seriously... Mandy has had a birthday party with her mother every year, but doesn't even know her own mother's age?

It's seemingly a character who doesn't know her own past. This is not for IN-universe reasons though. It's to an extent that doesn't make any sense in-universe. Everyone around Mandy seems to know more about Starfire than Mandy does. Even if Starfire chose not to tell Mandy everything, it's there all over. Starfire lives in a house that doesn't makes sense unless is was designed and built to follow Tamaranean architectural themes, Mandy herself talks about Tamaranean stuff. It's like the writer couldn't make up their mind about how much Mandy knew of Tamaran.

There's a lot of weird plot bits that you could ignore because "alternate universe" like how Blackfire.... has ruled as queen of Tamaran since the Citadel killed her parents, BEFORE Starfire left the planet to go to Earth. Or how Raven, Cyborg, Nightwing and "Beast" are the only Titans other than Starfire. It's like, ok, different timeline, different stuff. also Starfire has apparently been living as a single mom since... well... Mandy is 17. Seemingly she was born on Earth. So Kommand'r has ruled Tamaran for probably at least 18 years? Have the Titans been a super team 18 years? "Beast" doesn't look much taller than he did as a Teen Titan. Dick Grayson is Nightwing though.

Another thing... why did Starfire choose the name Mandy? It really seems like she named Mandy after komMAND'r. Sure Starfire loves her sister in a weird way, but... this version of Starfire seems far less.... caring towards her sister. Sure it fits with how Mandy realizes she's acting more like Blackfire than... well... herself. Early on Mandy called herself "the Anti-Starfire", then later realizes Blackfire fits that title more than she does. It feels like the author was intentionally trying to make Mandy and Kommand'r as similar as possible.... for no other reason than a strained allegory.

As one person pointed out in the comments of that one Youtube video... the story would make more sense if Mandy was actually Kommand'r's daughter, and Koriand'r had actually been raising her niece. Mandy acts like she doesn't know Koriand'r. If she was being foster raised it'd make a lot more sense. Also it'd make the ending make sense. Why did Kommand'r show up on Mandy's 17th birthday? That was obviously planned, you see in a few panels that there are Tamaraneans on Earth doing surveillance of Mandy. But why her 17th birthday?

The timing of her powers activating is less suspect if you look at it from the perspective that Mandy is non-athletic by CHOICE, and not by nature. She gets her powers when she finally starts actually pushing herself at physical activities.

As a whole it's a coming of age story, but it's internal logic is too wonky.

[Agent Z]

No it didn't fix Donna's problems. And nothing is going to. Not if you want the character to retain any of its history. The Dark Angel stuff didn't try to fix Donna's origin, it just tried to make that history work for the character instead of against it.

Retaining all of her history isn't the goal. Making it simple enough for people to follow is the ideal and pragmatic choice.

It gave Donna a purpose and a role and something to do, a reason to show up beyond "Titans together!"

It didn't. You might have an idea for what could be done with it but nothing came out of the Dark Angel stuff. No interesting stories, no new enemy (if anything Dark Angel was Hippolyta's enemy not Donna's) and certainly no solo books for Donna.

You may not like her being a Titan but it was a purpose and there is nothing wrong with being in an ensemble. Not everybody has to be the center of their own universe.

Even ensemble characters should have a bad guy or two of their own.

Says who? Plenty of ensemble characters don't. It isn't a necessity.

My god, let's at least try to make Donna interesting as an individual.

A villain isn't needed for that. Plenty found her interesting as an individual without the Dark Angel thing. In fact, you're one of few people who thinks Dark Angel fixed anything.

Absolutely agreed, but the question isn't the quality of writing, it's about Donna's broken ass continuity and origin.

Her continuity is broken because of dumb writing decisions like the Dark Angel crap. The two are very much intertwined.

Krypton explodes whether it's written well or not, yknow?

What you are suggesting is akin to saying Krypton didn't just explode but was caused by a deity who wanted to screw with Jor-El.

Wonder Woman's little sister Donna Troy became a Teen Titan, then had her personal reality attacked by the Dark Angel who made Donna experience multiple versions of her own life. Now free from the Angel, Donna oversees the multiverse as its Harbinger, watching for threats to any and else worlds.

I can All-Star Superman it too.



Adopted Amazon.
Teen Titan.
Reality Crisis.
Harbinger.

Orphaned girl.

Adopted Amazon.

Superhero.

Much simpler and more relatable than any craziness with the Multiverse which DC almost never uses in an interesting or easy to understand manner these days anyway.

[Agent Z]

Honestly....this smacks loudly of lazy reasoning.

There are a lot of reasons that refuse to stop liking things that you don't and vice versa.

Not liking something is fine. Treating the existence of what you don't like as some personal attack on you is where it gets ridiculous. Any rational person would simply go "this book is not for me" and move on to something that does appeal to them.

Realistically critique makes this better over time but even if it doesn't the internet blows everything out of proportion.
You make a big announcement that most people don't like and you get 100K dislikes and people laugh about it, and it feels HUUUUGGEEE, but its really not that big a deal when algorithms show you what you're interested in.

It's a stretch to say most people don't like this book and I'm not sure what algorithms have to do with anything.

With that book no one really needed an agenda.

The people who hate it sure have one.

Its entirely possible.... probably even likely....that perhaps that they don't like Cartoon style, unattractive characters, author self inserts, or narratives that don't make the most sense.

The cartoon style is whatever. There are authors who use self inserts that don't get anywhere near this backlash. And these people had decided the narrative "didn't make sense" before even reading it. At the end of the day, it's a typical coming of age story which even DC has done plenty of times.

Not to mention the fact a pretty large contingent of people were actually waiting for Nightstar. Lets not forget that Mar'i Grayson was a character that people loved and had been wanting to see since kingdom come.

Nightstar has a cult following at best. The majority of people bashing this book either didn't know about her or didn't care. The backlash to the very premise of this book is far too intense to be explained by people wanting to

If you listen you'll find that most people don't dislike Female Characters. Most people actually are in fact NOT adverse to minority characters, either.

On this, we can agree.

But there is as strong trend it seems of people being weary of the culture wars and harbor a vitriolic hate for progressivism. Or perceived progressivism in this case.

And I don't think those people's opinions are valid, to be blunt. Because there is nothing reasonable or sympathetic about being against progress.

That being said I been thinking about an controversial Opinion.

Dark Knight: Metal was the worst thing that D.C. has ever done. I still am in shock that they pulled the trigger on "Lets just make Everyone BATMAN" it made me sad.

I think Event Leviathan should have been the thing that rippled throughout the DC universe and that more than Doomsday clock and Metal. . . They should have threw their eggs into that.

Because its smaller. Its set on the fate of earth. "Its not FURTHER AND FURTHER INTO THE DEPPRESSOVERSE!" See in story telling they can always get bigger, so the progression from
Street~World~Galaxy~Universe~Time~Multiverse seems somewhat inevitable. However... there's few jumping off and reset points that can be pointed at and say "Look. The Entirety of the world is going on, not just the what's happening with the Super friends." and in fact the actions and negligence of the superfriends are what force or ALLOW the world to go through major change.

but... I guess its hard to beat a quick buck.

I didn't have much use of Metal either.