Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Alpha]

Retaining all of her history isn't the goal. Making it simple enough for people to follow is the ideal and pragmatic choice.

and we can do that while also finding a much more compelling story than adopted orphan. I have my own pitch, but there are plenty of other solutions too.

Plenty found her interesting as an individual without the Dark Angel thing.

How would we even know that? She was in a huge ensemble and only got a solo after the Dark Angel stuff

[Agent Z]

and we can do that while also finding a much more compelling story than adopted orphan. I have my own pitch, but there are plenty of other solutions too.

There are plenty of compelling stories about adopted orphans. From Oliver Twist to Superman.

I can't think of many well liked stories about a cosmic punching bag. Can you?

How would we even know that?

Because she had a fanbase before the Dark Angel crap and very few of them cared for it.

She was in a huge ensemble and only got a solo after the Dark Angel stuff

She never had a solo. She had a one-shot after the Dark Angel crap was retconned.

Is the idea that someone can have fans while being part of an ensemble really so difficult to believe?

[Alpha]

There were also missing parents like Rey and Naomi that bored me to death.

We have no idea of how large or small her "fanbase" was on Teen Titans since she was only a character in the middle of 8 others. Maybe only 4 people like her in total. Maybe 8000. There's no way to know. And she had a solo issue before in 1998, written and drawn by Phil Jimenez. This was with the Dark Angel origin

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Wonder_Wo...a_Troy_Vol_1_1


It's where this great page comes from :

IMG_20210807_080835.jpg

[Agent Z]

There were also missing parents like Rey and Naomi that bored me to death.

Well, you're in the minority there.

We have no idea of how large or small her "fanbase" was on Teen Titans since she was only a character in the middle of 8 others. Maybe only 4 people like her in total. Maybe 8000. There's no way to know.

Was there this masive spike in popularity after the Dark Angel thing that I didn't notice? Really who cares how many it was? She was still well liked and fairly popular. She didn't need the Dark Angel crap for that and it yielded no tangible benefits. It's telling that you and Ascended have only been able to offer "what ifs" about it rather than point to any actual good or increase in popularity that came from it.

[Alpha]

Was there this masive spike in popularity after the Dark Angel thing that I didn't notice? Really who cares how many it was. She was still well liked and fairly popular. She didn't need the Dark Angel crap for that and it yielded no tangible benefits. It's telling that you and Ascended have only been able to offer "what ifs" about it rather than point to any actual good or increase in popularity that came from it.

You Can't point to any proof that the adopted origin made her popular either. You can't show me sales or polls or anything.

In what?

She had a solo issue before in 1998, written and drawn by Phil Jimenez. This was with the Dark Angel origin

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Wonder_Wo...a_Troy_Vol_1_1


It's where this great page comes from :

IMG_20210807_080835.jpg

[Agent Z]

And she had a solo issue before in 1998, written and drawn by Phil Jimenez. This was with the Dark Angel origin

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Wonder_Wo...a_Troy_Vol_1_1


It's where this great page comes from :

IMG_20210807_080835.jpg

That image doesn't directly refer to the Dark Angel origin. Jiminez himself retconned the Dark Angel stuff in a miniseries so he didn't care for it either (I admit I got the dates confused). In fact, that scene would mostly work without the cosmic multiple lives thing because its about a person grieving the numerous tragedies they've endured.

[Agent Z]

You Can't point to any proof that the adopted origin made her popular either. You can't show me sales or polls or anything.

I can point to way more people on this thread and others who liked her without it. How many can you say liked this origin at all?

You keep arguing that this origin was good for her and yet have little to show for it.

[Alpha]

That image doesn't directly refer to the Dark Angel origin. Jiminez himself retconned the Dark Angel stuff in a miniseries so he didn't care for it either (I admit I got the dates confused). In fact, that scene would mostly work without the cosmic multiple lives thing because its about a person grieving the numerous tragedies they've endured.

True. So? He didn't use the "adopted by the amazons" origin either.

The point I'm making is that there the "cosmic punching back" ORIGIN is compelling to me, whereas the adoption story makes me feel nothing for the character. The Dark Angel and the multiverse stuff is complicated, but I think my pitch for the living nightmare for example, does the same thing in a much simpler way and shows how "cosmic punching bag" can be a great start for a character like Donna to overcome.

I still don't understand why it would make people resent Diana.

[Alpha]

I can point to way more people on this thread and others who liked her without it. How many can you say liked this origin at all?

You keep arguing that this origin was good for her and yet have little to show for it.

I mean, we are just a few random people in a forum. If we judge popularity by this forum, Injustice would be a total commercial failure, but it isn't.

[Agent Z]

You know what, let's just agree to disagree. This has gone on long enough.

[Alpha]

Okay my man. It's fine. Hope your weekend is fun.

[Agent Z]

Okay my man. It's fine. Hope your weekend is fun.

Thanks. You too.

[marhawkman]

The cartoon style is whatever. There are authors who use self inserts that don't get anywhere near this backlash. And these people had decided the narrative "didn't make sense" before even reading it. At the end of the day, it's a typical coming of age story which even DC has done plenty of times.

"I Am Not Starfire"? Oh I read it.... I think it doesn't make sense because of the fact that it's a story about a 17 year old girl... who doesn't know the birthday or age of her own mother... among other incredibly strange leaps of logic. The sequence of events doesn't make sense in-universe.

Also the main character is a terrible person. Much of the hate she gets from her classmates... is because she's worse. For example: one of her classmates starts taunting her in the hallway about her performance when they were playing softball. but why? Well... she was an outfielder... who never made any attempt to catch the ball. Of course her team was going to be mad at her, she deserved it.

Also when she has to fight Kommand'r, one way to interpret the scene where her powers activate is that this is the first time she's actually exerted herself hard enough to access them. Yeah, she's seemingly too lazy to exert herself hard enough until her aunt threatens to kill her.

In short, a large part of my dislike is the simple fact that the main character in the book is too unlikeable for me to be willing to overlook the poorly written story..

[marhawkman]

IMG_20210807_080835.jpg

To me, that scene would have no emotional weight if she was talking about events that only exist as facets of her backstory. I read the Team Titans story, when she talks about Robert, well... that really means something. If the Team Titans story didn't exist it'd have far less impact.

[Agent Z]

"I Am Not Starfire"? Oh I read it.... I think it doesn't make sense because of the fact that it's a story about a 17 year old girl... who doesn't know the birthday or age of her own mother... among other incredibly strange leaps of logic. The sequence of events doesn't make sense in-universe.

I've had to be reminded of my own parents' birthdays so this wasn't so strange to me.

Also the main character is a terrible person. Much of the hate she gets from her classmates... is because she's worse. For example: one of her classmates starts taunting her in the hallway about her performance when they were playing softball. but why? Well... she was an outfielder... who never made any attempt to catch the ball. Of course her team was going to be mad at her, she deserved it.

So she sucks at sports. Does that justify bullying her?

Also when she has to fight Kommand'r, one way to interpret the scene where her powers activate is that this is the first time she's actually exerted herself hard enough to access them. Yeah, she's seemingly too lazy to exert herself hard enough until her aunt threatens to kill her.

She was a teenage girl who had no interest in being a superhero or using her powers at all.