Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[Midnight_v]

We get back to the whole question as to whether or not we can stand similar groups of people doing the same thing.
If NTT were grownup superheroes someone somewhere would feel that interfered with the JLA, while "confusing"
new readers. Lots of genres deal with this problem here. If you read the Power Girl section over on Superman you
will notice we complain about this all the time. It is also a big source of complaint with the Earth-2 contingent
unhappy that there is no JSA book. The reality is that it certainly appears that some to quote Animal Farm"are
more equal than others." Not whining, being a cynical left winger makes me appreciate of the limits of possibility.

I do think that Titans has made real progress in growing as a franchise. It just is they are bumping up against the ceiling.
It just raises the question of whether they will be allowed to grow or just stay stuck where they are? I would just say to the
Titans fans those of us in other sectors of DC Fandom feel your pain. Which is not meant to be sarcastic, but a sincere
wish things were a little different.

It feels like the true success of DC should almost be measured by the success of its NON justice league characters in a way.
What I mean is this. I've mentioned it occasionally and something that struck me is that all they can do is make the iterations of "Justice - Something"
and they're families and spin offs. They had the Shadowpact for a very long time and eventually they made it "Jl: Dark" and I swear people seemed to act like
it was some new property and "Why didn't they do this sooner".

One of the craziest ripples from the justice league being SUUUCH A focus in Dc, is that the elseworld stories where the JL breaks up and we follow the adventures of a "B-team"
have been some of the more compelling stories. Injsutice is a superman batman story, yes, but its a story in which we actually get a lot of f lets say "Follow up" on LOTS of minor characters.
DCeased is the same way. AND ITS AWESOME.

Futures end was actually pretty good as well honestly if you like Terry McGuiness.

DC could stand to make more bold moves.

I really tend to agree. What that means though varies. I want to see real bold moves and advance the story lines a bit, but not things like Future State where they trot out a bunch of the same characters in new identities,or what they did with Tim this week. Those things aren't really bold anymore, its become passé.

I remember once saying: The New Warriors could become something a lot bigger if they did a line wide story line where the Avengers, The FF, and the X-teams vanished or went off into space and didn't return for X amount of years. Someone suggested they thought I was referencing the original "Heroes Reborn" and I wasn't, there's a lot of stories like that I saw a Cartoon where they got lost fighting darkside too. And I think it happened in young justice or something as well. The reality is it does 2 things.

In the JLA isolation book (just one book) it give the Main DC guys some crazy space adventure. Dc can make that as bold as they need. You can hand it to Morrison or someone else for matter it a million different "what's happening with the justice league" and that book can be incredible. Just set it up correctly. Lead up to it with stories of personal lives and things that are really important to those characters.

Then they leave for 8 years. What happens? LOTS of things. Its not just a matter of them disappearing is the fall out of what happens to all their stuff. Its an insane resource rush, of JLA toys when they're not there. There's fortress of solitude stuff. There's Atlantean, and Theymiscrian turmoil. There's villain's and monster's and space for new toys. Just don't take everyone off the board and then drop the audience off in the future.

Its not even like it hasn't been done and successfully, its just not been done with the utter intention to grow all the other characters. Supes got replaced by what, Alpha Centurion, Batman was Azrael (and lots of others), and that was awesome, but the idea that the JL goes to weird otherspaces and citadels at the end of time and always return and nothings changed? Its a huge narrative failure and missed opportunity at times.
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There's a lot of other bold things they can do. Leviathan really jumped out at me but... I saw obsidian and thought "Wow, Infiniti Inc..." lots of other books and characters that the dc book line just leaves on the table? Hell remember "Collapser"?. Hell all KINDS of chars never see the light of day again but they'll never be that thing, because every conversation somewhere is "Well why isn't the JL taking care of this. OH its too small. Got it."
Fix it Dc.

[Restingvoice]

We get back to the whole question as to whether or not we can stand similar groups of people doing the same thing.

As someone with limited budget, the simple answer is no. Although I'm already okay with Titans and Justice League existing side by side because their characterization and team dynamic are already so different. However that's just one part of the attraction. I know and like what the Justice League does, I just need a plot that doesn't disrespect the Titans.

Say Justice League is busy with intergalactic and multiversal threat, then at least let Titans deal with a global or inter-dimensional threat, and let them lead a universe-wide crossover event. It doesn't have to always be the League who leads the crossover, especially with the NTT crew so well known in and outside comics. Actually utilize their popularity.

[Midnight_v]

As someone with limited budget, the simple answer is no. Although I'm already okay with Titans and Justice League existing side by side because their characterization and team dynamic are already so different. However that's just one part of the attraction. I know and like what the Justice League does, I just need a plot that doesn't disrespect the Titans.

Say Justice League is busy with intergalactic and multiversal threat, then at least let Titans deal with a global or inter-dimensional threat, and let them lead a universe-wide crossover event. It doesn't have to always be the League who leads the crossover, especially with the NTT crew so well known in and outside comics. Actually utilize their popularity.

Actually utilize their popularity.

This. SUCH an obvious thing when you think about it.

[Restingvoice]

Also, I wanna add, just because the Titans can lead the mega event, it doesn't mean the League won't be there, they're just not gonna be the main characters, for once.

Gail Simone when talking about New 52 on twitter said that the opinion of Titans gen diverting attraction from JL gen is pretty common at DC though, so it's not just Didio, and I don't know if those people are already out with the firing or still at DC, so I'm not holding my breath.

[Dr. Skeleton]

Alan Scott should've remained hetero. This was really forced.

[Tzigone]

Alan Scott should've remained hetero. This was really forced.

I'm generally against retconning orientation. I'm all for more representation and creating more diverse characters, but not for just sweeping away/rewriting decades of continuity and years where we actually saw their thought bubbles, so know what they were thinking (doesn't apply just to sexual orientation, but that one has happened several times). It's almost like TPTB don't have faith enough in their abilities to create new diverse characters and make people love them, so they do this instead with characters people already like. To be fair, the same may apply to white CIS characters, too, in a way, in that new ones are mostly legacies and spinoffs (often relatives retconned into existence) because of the same difficulty in launching true newbies.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I liked Bendis's run on Legion. I just rather not read it issue to issue.

[TheRay]

"Well why isn't the JL taking care of this. OH its too small. Got it."

The answer should just be they are taking care of it. Remember in JLU when they put Booster Gold on "crowd control"? The JL can just be the all seeing eye, if that's what people want. Why isn't the JL here, why is it only so and so? Because they're a member of the JL, so the JL is here, and they decided that so and so is all that's needed.

[Midnight_v]

The answer should just be they are taking care of it. Remember in JLU when they put Booster Gold on "crowd control"? The JL can just be the all seeing eye, if that's what people want. Why isn't the JL here, why is it only so and so? Because they're a member of the JL, so the JL is here, and they decided that so and so is all that's needed.

😒 I can see a world where the Titans don't need to exist and we can send a superman, ww, bat rep to every problem that pops up, sure so they're the JLU from the cartoon that's okay I guess?
but to me the problem is deeper and it's come with multiple generations of characters just never growing up or old all being crammed together. Hell, they're could Easily be a scenario where the jsa and Tim Drakws team are working the same case, but in practice they all just get erased... imho

[Tzigone]

but to me the problem is deeper and it's come with multiple generations of characters just never growing up or old all being crammed together.

Now, I'm not a fan of the JSA on the same earth as the JLA for reasons previously discussed. But this comment does rather make me think of the term "clutter Earth" and just how damn cluttered it's gotten since 1990s with "families" growing larger and larger. Many members aren't well-used. And it is, as you mentioned, particularly problematic for the generational ones. DC seems to only want to deal with one "young" generation at a time, so with each new group, the old ones get discarded/used as canon fodder. They don't even wait for them to grow up anymore before getting shoved aside for a newbie. And the ones that should be grown up get de-aged to keep the main-title heroes younger (and sometimes get elements stripped away - from kids to to skill sets to maturities long since gained).

[marhawkman]

�� I can see a world where the Titans don't need to exist and we can send a superman, ww, bat rep to every problem that pops up, sure so they're the JLU from the cartoon that's okay I guess?
but to me the problem is deeper and it's come with multiple generations of characters just never growing up or old all being crammed together. Hell, they're could Easily be a scenario where the jsa and Tim Drakws team are working the same case, but in practice they all just get erased... imho

honestly... if it wouldn't make massive continuity issues, it'd be nice to have a Justice League that had 50+ members. Yeah, using them all in every book is not gonna happen, but It'd be neat to do a JL version that has dozens of minor characters that get used occasionally.

[TheRay]

�� I can see a world where the Titans don't need to exist and we can send a superman, ww, bat rep to every problem that pops up

And why wouldn't the Titans be those representatives?

[DrNewGod]

I'm generally against retconning orientation. I'm all for more representation and creating more diverse characters, but not for just sweeping away/rewriting decades of continuity and years where we actually saw their thought bubbles, so know what they were thinking (doesn't apply just to sexual orientation, but that one has happened several times). It's almost like TPTB don't have faith enough in their abilities to create new diverse characters and make people love them, so they do this instead with characters people already like. To be fair, the same may apply to white CIS characters, too, in a way, in that new ones are mostly legacies and spinoffs (often relatives retconned into existence) because of the same difficulty in launching true newbies.

Agreed. But it's also that creators aren't giving their best stuff to DC anymore on the kind of terms DC is willing to offer.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I was fond of Lemire's TT Earth One and I wouldn't have mind if it was how the new 52 approached the Titans.

I was fine with benching most of the legacy characters till later on. Most of them worked better when their mentors were older and more experienced. Although if you wanted to focus on Dick's generation taking over...I'm fine with it.

[Alpha]

Tom King's run would've been a huge success if he had used Hugo Strange as the big villain instead of Bane/Thomas Wayne. It would've naturally set up a much better context for so many of his story ideas, and it would've finally made Hugo Strange the spotlight he truly deserves.