Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[MajorHoy]

As a Batman fan, I'm actually okay with this. I think very few superheroes should know each others secret ids, tbh.

In the old days, when many superheroes stayed on a team for more than a story or two, there seemed to be a benefit to having team members be aware of other team members' secret identities.

[phonogram12]

In the old days, when many superheroes stayed on a team for more than a story or two, there seemed to be a benefit to having team members be aware of other team members' secret identities.

From a team/trust POV I can absolutely see the benefits. I just can see more stories springing up from most superheroes being kept in the dark about their fellow superheroes secret ids.

[Ascended]

1) Batman is the perfect example of the script power

2) Superman is in a similar case as Batman, but in the opposite way

Agreed on both counts.

3) I don't like Hal Jordan

Absolutely agreed. Hal is my least favorite Lantern. And one of my least favorite heroes in DC, actually. He's been in some terrific stories, but Hal himself bores me to tears.

4) My favourite humans lanterns, are Simon Bazz and Jessica Cruz

John Stewart and Guy Gardner for me.

5) In my list of favourite characters of all DC... Isn't any male. And i am a male (yeah, i know i have mentioned Simon Bazz, but he isn't in my top 5).

I dunno if that's controversial. Maybe it's unusual? I have several female characters in my Top 5 and Top 10, but I do have men on my list of favorite characters.

6) I don't like even a little, the Rucka Wonder Woman (Rebirth).

7) I don't like the Green Lantern of Morrison.

Philistine.

Let's see....controversial opinions.....

Barry Allen and the Flash franchise were both better when Barry was dead. And I say this as someone who has enjoyed a lot of Barry's material since his return.

None of the New Teen Titans should still be Titans. They should all still be friends, not teammates. The Titans name should belong to the kids, while the adults move on to other things.

Jon Kent is a fun character who's had some fun stories....but he shouldn't exist.

Bruce was right to have contingency plans for the League, and I believe all of them have considered how they'd take the others down as well. It's the responsible and pragmatic thing to do, given that mind control, evil alternate dimensions, and clones all exist.

Starman and the Knight family are one of the most underrated gems in DC.

[superduperman]

The DCEU needs to be just junked. Affleck is too old to play Batman. We're ten years out from MOS with no sequel on the horizon. Miller is an abuser and clearly not well. Fisher is clearly gone. Momoa and Gadot are fine but you can't build a JL around just them. They need a clean slate. Learn from your mistakes and build your shared universe organically.

[marhawkman]

As a Batman fan, I'm actually okay with this. I think very few superheroes should know each others secret ids, tbh.

This is one of the things i hate about Batman though.

[Agent Z]

If Batman can create contingency plans for the rest of the leaguers, then superheroes don't need to reveal their secret identities.

How do you mean?

Bruce was right to have contingency plans for the League, and I believe all of them have considered how they'd take the others down as well. It's the responsible and pragmatic thing to do, given that mind control, evil alternate dimensions, and clones all exist.

Having contingency plans against the League makes sense. However, Bruce has shown that he clearly cannot be trusted with such plans.

The DCEU needs to be just junked. Affleck is too old to play Batman. We're ten years out from MOS with no sequel on the horizon. Miller is an abuser and clearly not well. Fisher is clearly gone. Momoa and Gadot are fine but you can't build a JL around just them. They need a clean slate. Learn from your mistakes and build your shared universe organically.

Maybe we don't need a Justice League or a shared universe.

[Restingvoice]

Rather than secret contingency plans just spar with each other so they know how to take each other down. They're all in this together after all. Who knows who's gonna get brainwashed. Let each other be each other's contingency. It strengthen trust with the whole team than keeping secrets, knowing the team got your back and will protect the others and the world too.

[superduperman]

Maybe we don't need a Justice League or a shared universe.

That would be fine except we're not getting anything but Batman. No Superman movie on the horizon and, if the rumors about Flash are true, no Superman period. I don't mind stand alone universes as long as they use other characters besides Batman and his characters but so far, that hasn't been the case. Joker is getting a sequel and Superman is getting removed from the movies altogether. What sense does that make?

[Agent Z]

That would be fine except we're not getting anything but Batman. No Superman movie on the horizon and, if the rumors about Flash are true, no Superman period. I don't mind stand alone universes as long as they use other characters besides Batman and his characters but so far, that hasn't been the case. Joker is getting a sequel and Superman is getting removed from the movies altogether. What sense does that make?

Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, Black Adam, Static, Supergirl and Blue Beetle are all getting movies. Not to mention we have a Superman series on air and an animate show in the works. To say nothing of Young Justice, Titans, Doom Patrol and Peacemaker.

We are getting quite a bit more than just Batman.

[skyvolt2000]

Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, Black Adam, Static, Supergirl and Blue Beetle are all getting movies. Not to mention we have a Superman series on air and an animate show in the works. To say nothing of Young Justice, Titans, Doom Patrol and Peacemaker.

We are getting quite a bit more than just Batman.

Call me when Static & Blue Beetle. Actually filming, casting and a finished product are done.

I do not care for accouchements-we heard that mess with Cyborg and how did THAT work out?

Also when folks say it's just Batman-they mean it's just Batman getting almost everything.

Where is the merchandise for everyone else beyond the random figure in a Batman line? What folks want to see from DC is them actually caring that all those other projects actually exist and what they do in terms of success matters.

Instead of acting like it's by luck they succeed.

[phonogram12]

This is one of the things i hate about Batman though.

I can go either way, tbh. There's a part of me that loves Silver and Bronze Age-style stories where everyone's chummy chummy, but then there's that part of me that loves the idea that they all just see each other as business associates. They trust each other with their lives, but outside of that their civilian lives are their own.

[Ascended]

Rather than secret contingency plans just spar with each other so they know how to take each other down. They're all in this together after all. Who knows who's gonna get brainwashed. Let each other be each other's contingency. It strengthen trust with the whole team than keeping secrets, knowing the team got your back and will protect the others and the world too.

It's exactly because you don't know who's gonna get brainwashed that each of them has to have a concrete idea of how to take down any of the others. If everyone knows the plan, the plan is worthless. If Superman has talked to the rest of the League, and everyone has settled on how to stop him if he goes too far (for whatever reason) then evil Clark knows exactly how to get around them (assuming he's still in control of his actions, etc etc., some exceptions aside).

We know they train together and teach each other. We can likely assume there's been discussions about mind control and evil clones and how to deal with it. That's good, but the weight of responsibility on their shoulders practically demands deeper consideration. Each are world breakers, after all, nearly unstoppable forces. A rogue Leaguer is not something you pull your punches with, it requires more preparation than just "hit them better than they hit me." Especially when that rogue Leaguer could decide to activate extinction level effects in almost no time at all. It took the Anti-Monitor longer to eat a world than it would take some of the League to crack it in half.

Bruce....I have my issues with his modern, ultra paranoid version. But I don't necessarily believe he was totally wrong here. He's slower than the others, with more limitations to overcome (Batgod notwithstanding). If a Leaguer goes evil, Clark only needs a few minutes to reach the Fortress and all it's crazy tech from across space/time, should he need it. The others can easily and quickly call on resources far beyond mortal men (including entire *nations*). Bruce doesn't have that reaction time, it takes him a while to put together a good response to a rogue Leaguer. Time he won't have if a Leaguer *does* go rogue. I'm not totally defending Bruce here, because he was a dick in the story, but I can't really blame him for taking his plans as far as he did. He took them too far, yes, but maybe not by much. It's a flaw in him, and it was used to threaten the League, and that's fascinating even if the execution isn't always fondly remembered. It rings true to me, at least. YMMV.

And I know it's not always written this way and sometimes it is just a brawl. And a few of those have turned out pretty well. But I don't believe the League is so blinded by optimism that they've abandoned pragmaticism. Well. Maybe Barry.

Instead of acting like it's by luck they succeed.

This hits home. It does feel like a lot of DC's larger media wins are practically accidental. Or at least they're often projects the corporate heads didn't care about, and were thus ignored. In film anyway. Seems like a dozen people have been in charge of DC's films since Green Lantern, but somehow none have ever been right for the job I guess. DC still does quite well for itself on tv, in video games, cartoons, and almost anything else except the box office though. Hell, until fairly recently DC ruled those other arenas unchallenged, and Marvel was barely a contender at all.

[John Venus]

The DCEU needs to be just junked. Affleck is too old to play Batman. We're ten years out from MOS with no sequel on the horizon. Miller is an abuser and clearly not well. Fisher is clearly gone. Momoa and Gadot are fine but you can't build a JL around just them. They need a clean slate. Learn from your mistakes and build your shared universe organically.

I agree. But the problem with doing reboots is you mess up the parts of your universe that's working. That includes Shazam, Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

I think Flash should be scrapped though. Unlikely but i don't really need a big budget movie that retcons most of established continuity.

Let Batgirl be the intro to Keaton's Batman. Build from there. Let Mamoa and Gadot wrap up their trilogies. Recast Flash. If the stars align and JL movie with Mamoa and Gadot alongside Batgirl and Calle Supergirl works then go for it and save the timey wimey retcon stuff for that and let the Flash movie be a Flash movie. If the stars don't align, then keep AM and WW as separate universes and introduce their own version WW for the Batgirl/Keaton verse. Then when Gal/Patty are finally done, they can reboot with a new WW movie.

[Agent Z]

It's exactly because you don't know who's gonna get brainwashed that each of them has to have a concrete idea of how to take down any of the others. If everyone knows the plan, the plan is worthless. If Superman has talked to the rest of the League, and everyone has settled on how to stop him if he goes too far (for whatever reason) then evil Clark knows exactly how to get around them (assuming he's still in control of his actions, etc etc., some exceptions aside).

They don't have to tell each other the details of the plan. Hell, it would be nice if other heroes new of these plans. Bruce keeping these contingencies to himself is far more risky. What happens if he dies or loses cognizant functions before he can enact these plans when they are needed?

We know they train together and teach each other. We can likely assume there's been discussions about mind control and evil clones and how to deal with it. That's good, but the weight of responsibility on their shoulders practically demands deeper consideration. Each are world breakers, after all, nearly unstoppable forces. A rogue Leaguer is not something you pull your punches with, it requires more preparation than just "hit them better than they hit me." Especially when that rogue Leaguer could decide to activate extinction level effects in almost no time at all. It took the Anti-Monitor longer to eat a world than it would take some of the League to crack it in half.

I don't think calling these people world breakers is accurate given none of them have destroyed a planet, at least not without other factors in play. If they were that powerful, taking on someone like Darkseid or the Anti-Monitor wouldn't require an entire team or more.

[Ascended]

They don't have to tell each other the details of the plan. Hell, it would be nice if other heroes new of these plans. Bruce keeping these contingencies to himself is far more risky. What happens if he dies or loses cognizant functions before he can enact these plans when they are needed?

Then he fails, same as if any hero dies before stopping a threat. But what if he needs these plans by tomorrow, but it'd take him six months to get what he needs? Sorry world, you got thrown into the Phantom Zone because Bruce either wanted to be nice and not prepare for the next time Clark gets mind controlled, or Bruce told Clark how he'd go about stopping him and Clark decided not to be a total moron and adjusted his plans to get around Bruce's.

I do think the League has talked about this sorta thing on different levels. I can see stuff like Hal having a beer with Barry and just bullshitting about how they'd stop Clark or J'onn or Diana. Diana and Arthur have likely talked about it in depth with each other and their respective governments, given that they're both responsible to political bodies. And I can see the League sitting down and hashing out basic blueprints on how to stop one of their number, a sharing of weaknesses, so to speak. All useful things to do, great for dealing with clones or alternate dimensional copies. But not so good for when a Leaguer themselves turn. A plan the enemy knows is less than worthless, and if you're foolish enough to follow a plan the enemy knows you deserve the beatdown you'll get. If Diana goes evil for some reason, you think she won't change tactics to account for what the League planned together? Any of them would, obviously. Therefore, they can't know everything their peers have in mind.

I don't think calling these people world breakers is accurate given none of them have destroyed a planet, at least not without other factors in play. If they were that powerful, taking on someone like Darkseid or the Anti-Monitor wouldn't require an entire team or more.

Come now, we *know* they are that powerful. Clark has pushed planets and moons out of orbit. Barry has literally rewritten all of time. There's a Lantern who famously blew up a planet and DC never let anyone forget it. Just because they don't make a habit of ruining worlds doesn't mean they lack the ability to, and that potential in the hands of a malevolent force is what they all have to be prepared to deal with. There's nobody else qualified to.

And Darkseid and the Anti-Monitor are well beyond "planet breaker" status, so yeah it still requires a team (of planet breakers) to challenge them.

I get that some folks like the League to be buddy-buddy, with absolute trust in each other, but this isn't about them liking or trusting each other, it's about the responsibility they carry. There's maybe a dozen people on earth who could stop a rogue Leaguer who was serious about burning everything to ash and willing to use their full resources; half of those people are the other Leaguers and the rest are would-be tyrants and despots who make the cure worse than the disease. Optimism is one thing, being naïve another. And almost every Leaguer, in continuity, has gone rogue at one point or another for whatever reason. It's crazy to think they don't have plans in mind to deal with such events, and crazier still to think they'd forewarn everyone by sharing everything.

But clearly I like my heroes a little more pragmatic than you do, and that's cool, different strokes and all that.