Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[josai21]

I think even a strong editorial team wouldn't be able to keep things razor-focus when you have a variety of different writers writing different titles and with completely different sense and sensibilities to their comics and sometimes that can infringe on what the writers want to do.
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When you're playing in a world you didn't create, I think there is something to be said for writer's giving up their agency. Rather than each individual writer telling the story that they want to tell, they have to be a team and create a single cohesive universe.

[Dred]

I think even a strong editorial team wouldn't be able to keep things razor-focus when you have a variety of different writers writing different titles and with completely different sense and sensibilities to their comics and sometimes that can infringe on what the writers want to do.

Like, we probably wouldn't have Morisson being Morisson, and what would the DCU be without that?

I think the main draw of Dick as Batman was partially his dynamic with Damian. When most people think of DickBats they think of Morrison's Batman and probably not a lot of the other stuff he was running around in at the time (or probably doesn't want to remember Tony Daniel's writing work).

I mentioned it earlier but Black Mirror was and still is Snyder's best Batman work.

[TheBatman]

There is weight and importance behind the mantle (all of the mantles), which is why the very first successful legacy characters took the names and capabilities with Barry and Hal taking over for Jay and Alan.

This doesn't ring true. For one thing, Barry and Hal aren't legacy characters, they're reinventions. Alan Scott wasn't a space cop, and to Barry, Jay was a comic book character, and all he took from Jay was the name. It's not the same as Dick taking over from Bruce, or Wally taking over from Barry.

As for weight and importance, Barry and Hal were the ones who gave the mantles of Flash and GL that weight and importance to begin with. Without them, Flash and GL would likely be one of the many superhero franchises that lost relevance after the golden age. There's a reason why Wally dressed like Barry, and most GL's have the space cop gimmick and the same color scheme as Hal's outfit.

[TheBatman]

Creating more heroes adds to the problem. DC doesn't give the sheer amount of characters that they have on the backburner the time of day.

In today's age of superhero movies why isn't there a Blue Devil series that can be a commentary on it or something like that. That's a fresh idea with an established character.

I agree with you, I'm just saying that if people truly wanted new ideas, they'd advocate new characters instead of wanting a bunch of golden/silver age sidekicks to take up the same old mantles so that they could eventually "evolve" into a watered down version of the original characters.

[josai21]

Here's how I would make this work for DC as a company. I've posted this elsewhere, but here's my strategy for creating a DC Universe that leaves and breathes and has this sort of progression.

You reduce your output to five comics, releasing once every 6 months. Each comic being between 100-200 pages.

The five Comics are

Detective Comics: This initially follows Bruce wayne on his journeys to become Batman. after 1-2 IRL years, you get Year One.
Action Comics: This is Superman's origin and reveal.
Wonder Comics: This is Diana's World War II origin story
Adventure Comics: This is one that would be released once a month for six months following a single character before switching to someone else. This would follow Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, etc. Comics which did exceptionally well would have their own spin-off added to the additional top three.
Finally, Legends Comics: This one follows Vandal Savage and others like Dr. Fate over the course of human history showing how the DC universe is different.

After 2-4 IRL Years, you get Dick Grayson/Robin. This is also the first instance of Batman/Superman teamups.

Year 5: Formation of the Justice League and interstellar conflict.

Year 7/8: Teen Titans Form
In between these years you have numerous adventures and stories.

Year 12/13: You start to see Jason Todd's generation.

Year 14: You see the Young Justice Generation

By year 20, Bruce is in his late forties. Dies in an epic story arc. Dick Grayson takes over as Batman with Damian as his Robin. Most of the Justice has been filled with Dick's Generation with the older generation acting more as mentors. At this point, the story shifts more to that generation.

By year 35, you have Damian Batman. Jon is Superman All of the first generation are dead save for the immortals or Superman. Dick's generation is acting in that mentor roll. Young Justice Generation is working alongside them.

Year 50: Damian's generation phasing out and totally new heros carrying the mantles and seeing this world pushed forward.
At this point there will also be a legacy line which focuses on canon stories of previous heroes, but who have retired or died.

That's how I'd do it at least.

[Agent Z]

It's honestly not that hard to do if you have a strong editorial team. But that's the problem, writers are given free reign to do whatever they want.

I'd say that's the opposite problem for DC.

[Frontier]

When you're playing in a world you didn't create, I think there is something to be said for writer's giving up their agency. Rather than each individual writer telling the story that they want to tell, they have to be a team and create a single cohesive universe.

I can see why that would be difficult to do, and I think part of the joy of the creative process is the individual perspective and style that a writer brings to the table on a character they created.

I mentioned it earlier but Black Mirror was and still is Snyder's best Batman work.

Well, it was definitely different from his actual Batman run where everything ended up becoming a "grand epic," but those ended up selling well, so...

[jetengine]

DC treat Wonder Woman badly. As one of the Trio she should be on equal footing to Batman and Superman. Instead she's treated second rate (she doesnt even have her own second title FFS, one of the core icons of DC and for years the only non distaff Superheroine the public could name), her stories tend to be rote and they can't hash out a vision for her or core characterisation unlike Bruce or Clark.

[Aahz]

Like seriously, Wally, Jack and Dick worked. Why not try elsewhere? What is so crazy about that?

They did it actually with several other characters like Jamie Reyes, Ryan Choi, Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawk, Courtney Whitmore, and many more (a good part of the pre flashpoint JSA was for example made up of Legacy Characters).

[chamber-music]

I like that former sidekicks actually became their own characters instead of just inheriting a mantle from the franchise headliner. I think characters like Dick (Nightwing), Jason (Red Hood), Roy (Arsenal) and so on got to carve out some interesting stories on their own without being subjected to the weight of their mentors mantles.

[Aahz]

Blue Beetle and Atom weren't holding down comics beforehand,

DC doesn't have that many characters with solo titles. And I think most of the big names were replaced at some point, for at least some time.

And DC has business wise not much to gain from replacing a character who can sell a book. Since the replacement will very likely not have higher sales on the long run.
And making Dick Batman is even very likely to be a loss for them, since that means that they have to cancel his Nightwing series, that usually also has decent sales.

They have potentially more to gain, from putting a new character in a less successful mantle , and hope that he becomes a success, and from spinning of the "sidekicks" of the the big characters into their own books.

[Aahz]

Also let's not pretend that Nightwing is some golden goose for DC. They **** with that title constantly since Didio came into power. Just look at it right now.

I'm not saying that DCs in necessary doing something smart now. But Dick can carry as Nightwing a solo book and is often also a lead character of a team book, so making him Batman might in the end mean that DC has two series less that sell.

And the quality you can also have when replacing "lesser" characters.

And I don't think that DC could really retire their iconic characters permanently, since those that are the entry point for new readers.

[Sandy Hausler]

I know this is a controversial opinions thread, but I expect everyone to be civil. Dred and TheBatman, please refrain from sniping at each other (or anyone else).

[SiegePerilous02]

It seems that Weisman actually wanted to greatly expand Gargoyles, like giving Brooklyn his own arc and what not. And down the line, having Demona redeem herself, with Goliath and Elisa adopting a child.

Yeah I know about some of his plots. But with Gargoyles, I think that it always had a core ensemble cast with Goliath and Elisa as the clear leads. It wasn't an adaptation of a franchise that is comprised of several other franchises, and the show never had the same time skips that YJ has. Maybe it would have gotten around to some eventually, but the spin offs would have covered the developments and world building for their own corners and casts.

With YJ, we get snippits of all the various worlds that comprise it, but don't dwell on any of them. And skip over a lot of developments off screen, events like Tula dying, Babs becoming Batgirl and then Oracle, Dick becoming Nightwing, the break up between Superboy and MM from season 1 to season 2, Zatanna's graduation to the JL. Similar arcs probably would have played out on screen with Gargoyles or Spec. Spider-Man.

This idea that "We need to replace the older gen for the sake of the company" comes off as disingenuous.

If you truly want fresh, new ideas, do away with the concept of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. in general. Create entirely new superheroes that speak to today's world

Yeah, in my ideal head cannon where the story progresses and characters age out, the JL generation would fade away and the Titans would take their place. But they'd do it as the Titans, in their own identities. Why can't Dick lead the new generation as Nightwing, why would he have to do it as Batman II? Wally worked as Flash II, but it seems incredibly dull to do that across the board.

I'd be fine with Superman and Wonder Woman retiring, but I have no interest in characters replacing them in those roles. Some roles cannot be replaced. That doesn't mean other heroes cannot step up and take the spotlight, but do so with brand new ideas. The adult Titans and a bunch of new faces in new roles.

I think godisawesome compared YJ to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and I'd say that comparison is pretty apt, with Kevin Feige being the Weisman of the MCU, even though it doesn't have the benefit of solo spotlights like the MCU does.

YJ just really makes me want to see Weisman on a Titans show, and JUST the Titans. Or see what this version of the Wonder Woman or Flash or Captain Marvel properties looks like.
It has everything, but isn't that satisfying because it's not laser focused on one property. Spectacular Spider-Man focused on one corner of the MU, and was IMO much stronger for it. And it had lots of progression and potential for growth in its short two seasons.

[Jackalope89]

I knew my opinion was controversial, but wasn't expecting 3 pages of it.

I just like seeing character progression, not stagnation or worse, regression.