Your DC-Only controversial opinions (part II)...

[HsssH]

Yeah, Trinity War has to be the worst JL story from that run. And I still loved that final page reveal with CSA

[Guy_McNichts]

I imagine one of the appeals of the "hero turns evil" trope is the chance to see a heroic character "unleashed" or "cutting loose."

I know for certain fans (though definitely not all), the thrill of Superman turning evil is showcasing how dangerous he could be if he didn't hold back. I kind of get the feeling, looking at stuff like DC vs. Vampires, there's supposed to be a similar thrill in seeing Wonder Woman turned into this bloodthirsty/horny vampire dom who revels in her own savagery. And so on.

The problem I find, though, is so many of these face-to-heel turns are incredibly contrived and/or rely on mind control. Superman generally turns evil via said mind control or because Lois dies which makes him angry-sad. That's not cool or badass. That's lame and makes Clark out to be a loser, even if he does demolish every other hero over the course of his tantrum.

Going back to DC vs. Vampires, I keep thinking about how Diana got turned into a vampire through incredibly stupid means that made her look like an idiot, and as a vampire, she's a willing slave to King Dick. Where's the fun in that?
Or in DCeased, I really got the sense there was supposed to be some visceral, horror thrill to seeing zombie Diana ripping people apart. But all I saw was a undignified creature that only got turned into a zombie in a really stupid and insulting manner.

So I don't know how controversial this opinion is, but I think it really diminishes the coolness of a character "gone bad" when they're only evil against their will or for dumb/contrived reasons. People enjoy villains like the Joker or Lex Luthor or Dr. Doom because they own what they are. There's nothing "badass" about a character losing their agency.

[WonderLight789]

DC comics is by far more sexist than any other comic company. Since they have the allegedly face of feminism and equality Wonder Woman. Yet they have spent decades allowing her to be the perfect victim of sexism. always weaker than the alpha males. Always portrayed as stupid, bloodthirsty in countless stories where the men must teach her about love. She is treated as a glorified concept that DC doesn't actually respect. Just a glorified punching bag and eye candy for other male heroes.

[marhawkman]

I imagine one of the appeals of the "hero turns evil" trope is the chance to see a heroic character "unleashed" or "cutting loose."

I know for certain fans (though definitely not all), the thrill of Superman turning evil is showcasing how dangerous he could be if he didn't hold back. I kind of get the feeling, looking at stuff like DC vs. Vampires, there's supposed to be a similar thrill in seeing Wonder Woman turned into this bloodthirsty/horny vampire dom who revels in her own savagery. And so on.

The problem I find, though, is so many of these face-to-heel turns are incredibly contrived and/or rely on mind control. Superman generally turns evil via said mind control or because Lois dies which makes him angry-sad. That's not cool or badass. That's lame and makes Clark out to be a loser, even if he does demolish every other hero over the course of his tantrum.

Going back to DC vs. Vampires, I keep thinking about how Diana got turned into a vampire through incredibly stupid means that made her look like an idiot, and as a vampire, she's a willing slave to King Dick. Where's the fun in that?
Or in DCeased, I really got the sense there was supposed to be some visceral, horror thrill to seeing zombie Diana ripping people apart. But all I saw was a undignified creature that only got turned into a zombie in a really stupid and insulting manner.

So I don't know how controversial this opinion is, but I think it really diminishes the coolness of a character "gone bad" when they're only evil against their will or for dumb/contrived reasons. People enjoy villains like the Joker or Lex Luthor or Dr. Doom because they own what they are. There's nothing "badass" about a character losing their agency.

See if you can find a copy of the old Crucifer story. "Tenth Circle" JLA 94 to 98. that was pretty good

[Jabare]

STEEL should be bigger. More like a MECHA. Obviously keep the hammer and the motif after his namesake, but I'd like him to be closer to Big Guy, Stripes or D.V.A for live action

[Guy_McNichts]

See if you can find a copy of the old Crucifer story. "Tenth Circle" JLA 94 to 98. that was pretty good

I read that as it came out. Gonna have to disagree about it being pretty good though.


EDIT:
Out of curiosity, I looked into it...Tenth Circle, JLA: Scary Monsters, and Superman/Wonder Woman: Whom Gods Destroy seem to be the only times Chris Claremont has tackled Wonder Woman.

WOW, that is a BAD track record. Woof.

[WonderLight789]

tom taylor is the worst wonder woman writer of modern era. And his treatment of her proves he has something against the character and what she represents.

[Felipe Silveira]

tom taylor is the worst wonder woman writer of modern era. And his treatment of her proves he has something against the character and what she represents.

Lol, can we criticize Tom Taylor here? I finally found my place.

[CaptCleghorn]

Lol, can we criticize Tom Taylor here? I finally found my place.

He gets plenty of negative criticism for his Earth 2 run.

[Felipe Silveira]

He gets plenty of negative criticism for his Earth 2 run.

People don't take it very well when I say his run in Nightwing is really boring.

[MajorHoy]

He gets plenty of negative criticism for his Earth 2 run.

I'm not sure how much of the blame he deserves for that one and how much should be heaped on the editorial side.

[WonderLight789]

I'm not sure how much of the blame he deserves for that one and how much should be heaped on the editorial side.

Considering taylor's trackrecord. It is very likely his fault. His writing just isn't good.

[Jabare]

tom taylor is the worst wonder woman writer of modern era. And his treatment of her proves he has something against the character and what she represents.

what did he do?

[Ascended]

I'm not sure how much of the blame he deserves for that one and how much should be heaped on the editorial side.

Yeah, I feel like editorial ruined that book before Robinson left it and Taylor was doing the best he could with a bad situation he got saddled with.

Taylor deserves plenty of crap for some of his work, but he gets a lot of flak for stuff he isn't responsible for too, like Injustice.

[hareluyafan1]

Taylor deserves plenty of crap for some of his work, but he gets a lot of flak for stuff he isn't responsible for too, like Injustice.

Beg your pardon but from what I've heard that's not entirely accurate.

True, it wasn't Taylor's idea to make Injustice Diana a villain (that was NetherRealm Studios), but from what I understand in the original game she's kind of just... 'generic evil counterpart.' It was Taylor's writing in the tie-in comics which really pushed the notion that Diana was the real evil that had manipulated and corrupted Superman into a tyrant.